Am I a "scab"?

I know at the school i work at the teachers have worked through a strike (we only have 8 though)

I am in the NASUWT, and they're less likely to strike. However, if they do decide to, I will be refusing to. If I were you I'd change union - you obviously don't agree with their stance and their methods. They have always been the most likely of the teaching unions to strike - my own education suffered as a result in the '80s and that's why I won't do it now.

I don't think the union can 'do' anything, they can't force you to strike

but why don't you want to? sort of defeats the purpose of being in a union if you're not prepared to stand up and be counted really

I'm with the ATL and it's very likely that we would ever strike. I think that the NUT staff at my school will all be striking so I'm hoping for a day at work without the kids!
I'd agree that I'd change unions to mine or Lumpy's as the NUT do tend to be the ones that strike much more often. Have a look at both unions and see which one you feel suits you better. I've just recently come back from my union conference and I feel totally right in my union.

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity
but why don't you want to? sort of defeats the purpose of being in a union if you're not prepared to stand up and be counted really

id="quote">

Indeed - given that my own union has been doing sterling work fighting for better pay and conditions (and this is demonstrable fact, not propaganda), there's no way I wouldn't go along with strike action if it was the result of a genuinely legitimate majority vote.

I know a journalist whose right-wing views make NickJ seem like a Marxist, and he once told me that he'd never cross an NUJ picket line, as it would defeat the whole purpose of being a member.

As others have said, if you genuinely feel strongly about this, then you need to ask yourself why you're a union member in the first place. By definition, they expect you to put something back in, and sometimes this will be over and above subscription fees.

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity
i don't think the union can 'do' anything, they can't force you to strike

id="quote">

Kieren is right, they can't do anything. There is a Q&A on their website where it does say they can not force you to strike.

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

but why don't you want to? sort of defeats the purpose of being in a union if you're not prepared to stand up and be counted really

id="quote">

But being in a union is about more than their view on striking. It gives you valuable protection in the case of disciplinaries.

I think it's a tricky one. I joined NASUWT because amongst other reasons I wasn't sure I would be able to strike if the issue ever arose. I work in a dictatorship of a school where I don't think we even have any union reps (and if we do they hide in cupboards) which is awful I know [:I].

I do think it's a worthy cause considering the hours we do, however there is a part of me that wonders if the kids education should be disrupted because of a pay dispute...I know it sounds a bit hippified...but there you go.

How would the NUT know if you didn't strike? Is it common knowledge what union you are in?

When my employer was faced with a strike situation recently I had decided that I would work. I was told that there was no action the union could take against me.

I went on strike for one day last year. I don't agree with striking as you don't but a union is a tiger with no teeth without the support of it's members.

I am an NUT member who also voted against the strike. I will not be striking later this month. I feel that there are many more important issues about workload/CS/behaviour/PPA that need addressing before pay. I am considering changing union, maybe to the ATL (H is an ATl member so am very aware of what they believe in)

Not bad in the slightest. You voted against the strike, so you clearly don't think striking was appropriate.

You have as much right not to strike as others do to strike. I really dislike the pressure that is placed on people to strike when they don't feel it is appropriate.

quote:Originally posted by sparkletoes
I am an NUT member who also voted against the strike. I will not be striking later this month. I feel that there are many more important issues about workload/CS/behaviour/PPA that need addressing before pay. I am considering changing union, maybe to the ATL (H is an ATl member so am very aware of what they believe in)

id="quote">

And what a good choice that would be (not that I'm at all biased being my school rep and on the branch committee!)

No the union can't really do 'anything' about it. They also have reduced scope to do anything for their members if members don't support them when they call a collective action.

I studied trade unions at Uni, a lot of the stuff the unions did was pure tripe, trying to fight actions where their demands just were not economical, but other actions were entirely, completely valid. Don't forget before unions people could be fined for whistling at work, or arriving late, or if equipment broke that they were using. there was no health and safety, no minimum wage, breaks, in fact it was a pretty dire existence.

I am in the NASUWT but my H is in the NUT and is another one who voted against strike action and will be going to school. The NUT do have a reputation as being militant if you know what I mean and my H is now seriously considering changing unions.

Could you all really cross a picket line? There's something inside me that just won't let me do it, I think it's my mother and her labour views but I couldn't bring myself to cross a picket line regardless of whether I agreed or not.

Yes, I could cross a picket line. While I respect that others may feel no other option but to strike, I also believe nobody has the right to pressure me into doing so.

This is purely hypothetical, btw. I'm not a teacher and I don't belong to a union.

Working whilst your fellow union members strike certainly makes you a scab, even if you aren't doing it for selfish reasons. If you don't believe in strike action the NUT surely isn't the right union for you (I believe the ATL, for example, have a conscience clause allowing individual members not to strike.)

?

Good morning everyone

Thank you all for your opinions.

I have been a member of the NUT for 12 years (since I qualified) and I did take my time when I joined to join the union which I thought would be best for me/ My beliefs etc. fast forward twelve years and I still believe in the fundamental principles that they stand for. However, I am also a realist, and I am pretty damn sure that this strike will be completely fruitless - there is no way on earth that this govt will give the pay raise that they are requesting, given the rises that the other public sector workers are getting over the next three years - i just feel like it is making noise for noises sake IYSWIM.

Maybe I will change Unions - I will have to read what they are all about though before I switch.

To be honest my loyalty to my colleagues is far higher - there is no way that I would see my colleagues disadvantaged because I am on strike.

I have visions of the 80s miners strike in my mind. That was not pleasant [V] and not something I would want to ever have to go through with my family.

Thanks for all of your thoughts ?

I would and have crossed a picket line. I just don't believe in strikes. At the end of the day they don't have an impact. My loyalty to my colleagues is very high, but I wouldn't see them disadvantaged due to me going out on strike. I also have visions like Knickerless and there is no way I could go through that like my Dad did during the miners strike.

quote:Originally posted by Nichola80
(not that I'm at all biased being my school rep and on the branch committee!)

id="quote">

Nichola - please can I mail you with some questions about being an ATL rep? There's an interesting situation come up at school that you could possibly help to shed some light on...?

quote:Originally posted by St. Knickerless
However, I am also a realist, and I am pretty damn sure that this strike will be completely fruitless - there is no way on earth that this govt will give the pay raise that they are requesting, given the rises that the other public sector workers are getting over the next three years - i just feel like it is making noise for noises sake IYSWIM.

id="quote">

just as a matter of interest...just say the strikes do have an impact, will you be forfeiting any benefits they may gain?

last time we striked (struck? ?) i don't think anything made me crosser than the people who were happy to come in and coin it in by doing overtime while the rest of us lost a days pay [V]

and ok, striking probably won't achieve everything you want, but sometimes it's about standing together and showing the work force can't be pushed around rather than being in it for the gain

I couldn't and have not crossed a picket line.

When UNISON called a strike last year our school was closed for the day as there were no caretakers etc. We were told that we had to report for work and sign a book to say we were willing to work. As this meant crossing a picket line the teachers decided en masse not to do this. The Union reps went to the Head and told him this and he agreed that he would not make us do this. Other schools were not so supportive and many staff were forced to cross picket lines or lose a days pay.

quote:Originally posted by Mint Spies

quote:Originally posted by Nichola80
(not that I'm at all biased being my school rep and on the branch committee!)

id="quote">

Nichola - please can I mail you with some questions about being an ATL rep? There's an interesting situation come up at school that you could possibly help to shed some light on...?

id="quote">

Of course you can! I'm only rep by default really as there's me and 1 other member of staff in ATL at our school but fire away!

quote:Originally posted by Pink Han-bag
Could you all really cross a picket line? There's something inside me that just won't let me do it, I think it's my mother and her labour views but I couldn't bring myself to cross a picket line regardless of whether I agreed or not.

id="quote">I will do what I believe in. I don't believe we should strike. The picket line, if there is one, won't have anything to do with my union anyway.

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

quote:Originally posted by St. Knickerless
However, I am also a realist, and I am pretty damn sure that this strike will be completely fruitless - there is no way on earth that this govt will give the pay raise that they are requesting, given the rises that the other public sector workers are getting over the next three years - i just feel like it is making noise for noises sake IYSWIM.

id="quote">

just as a matter of interest...just say the strikes do have an impact, will you be forfeiting any benefits they may gain?

last time we striked (struck? ?) i don't think anything made me crosser than the people who were happy to come in and coin it in by doing overtime while the rest of us lost a days pay [V]

and ok, striking probably won't achieve everything you want, but sometimes it's about standing together and showing the work force can't be pushed around rather than being in it for the gain

id="quote">Stands round a brazier waving a WKtCS placard.

quote:Originally posted by Nichola80

quote:Originally posted by Mint Spies

quote:Originally posted by Nichola80
(not that I'm at all biased being my school rep and on the branch committee!)

id="quote">

Nichola - please can I mail you with some questions about being an ATL rep? There's an interesting situation come up at school that you could possibly help to shed some light on...?

id="quote">

Of course you can! I'm only rep by default really as there's me and 1 other member of staff in ATL at our school but fire away!

id="quote">

YHM! ?

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

quote:Originally posted by St. Knickerless
However, I am also a realist, and I am pretty damn sure that this strike will be completely fruitless - there is no way on earth that this govt will give the pay raise that they are requesting, given the rises that the other public sector workers are getting over the next three years - i just feel like it is making noise for noises sake IYSWIM.

id="quote">

just as a matter of interest...just say the strikes do have an impact, will you be forfeiting any benefits they may gain?

last time we striked (struck? ?) i don't think anything made me crosser than the people who were happy to come in and coin it in by doing overtime while the rest of us lost a days pay [V]

and ok, striking probably won't achieve everything you want, but sometimes it's about standing together and showing the work force can't be pushed around rather than being in it for the gain

id="quote">

What should she do though? She's expressed her disapproval in a democratic way by voting against it. Does Union membership mean you have to go along with everything proposed by the Union? Of course not.

quote:Originally posted by hazel
What should she do though? She's expressed her disapproval in a democratic way by voting against it. Does Union membership mean you have to go along with everything proposed by the Union? Of course not.

id="quote">

sorry been out shopping just seen this...

what should she do? well in all conscience, resign from the union. i personally think its a bit rich being happy to take the protection, discounts, legal help etc that the union offers but not be prepared to take action when asked. its about taking the rough with the smooth isn't it? and as i said will the non strikers be rejecting any increase to their pay deal, that their colleagues may secure for them? i doubt it

yes she voted democratically. but the vote was lost. had the vote gone the other way, would it have been acceptable for the ones wanting it to go ahead and strike anyway? of course it wouldn't.

plus i think the 'i didn't vote for it so i'm not doing it' argument is a bit weak tbh. i certainly didn't vote for gordon brown and this set of dickheads to be running the country. does that mean i can ignore their polices and laws? if only ?

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

quote:Originally posted by hazel
What should she do though? She's expressed her disapproval in a democratic way by voting against it. Does Union membership mean you have to go along with everything proposed by the Union? Of course not.

id="quote">



will the non strikers be rejecting any increase to their pay deal, that their colleagues may secure for them? i doubt it

id="quote">I didn't vote for it, I'm in another union. What should I do if there's a pay award?

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

quote:Originally posted by hazel
What should she do though? She's expressed her disapproval in a democratic way by voting against it. Does Union membership mean you have to go along with everything proposed by the Union? Of course not.

id="quote">

sorry been out shopping just seen this...

what should she do? well in all conscience, resign from the union. i personally think its a bit rich being happy to take the protection, discounts, legal help etc that the union offers but not be prepared to take action when asked. its about taking the rough with the smooth isn't it? and as i said will the non strikers be rejecting any increase to their pay deal, that their colleagues may secure for them? i doubt it

yes she voted democratically. but the vote was lost. had the vote gone the other way, would it have been acceptable for the ones wanting it to go ahead and strike anyway? of course it wouldn't.

plus i think the 'i didn't vote for it so i'm not doing it' argument is a bit weak tbh. i certainly didn't vote for gordon brown and this set of dickheads to be running the country. does that mean i can ignore their polices and laws? if only ?

id="quote">

Absolutely agree (apart from the fact that I did vote for the current govt, but that's another discussion really, and the point is still valid). If you join a union that doesn't have a conscience clause allowing members not to strike, you are agreeing to strike when they do.

quote:Originally posted by Lumpy Golightly

I didn't vote for it, I'm in another union. What should I do if there's a pay award?

id="quote">

that's an extremely good and intelligent question. so intelligent that i'm afraid i have no idea of an answer ?

in the community utopia all the non strikers, be it the non voters and other unions would contribute a day's pay too, to back up their striking colleagues. i am fully aware this will never happen either ?

quote:Originally posted by hazel

quote:Originally posted by kierenthecommunity

quote:Originally posted by St. Knickerless
However, I am also a realist, and I am pretty damn sure that this strike will be completely fruitless - there is no way on earth that this govt will give the pay raise that they are requesting, given the rises that the other public sector workers are getting over the next three years - i just feel like it is making noise for noises sake IYSWIM.

id="quote">

just as a matter of interest...just say the strikes do have an impact, will you be forfeiting any benefits they may gain?

last time we striked (struck? ?) i don't think anything made me crosser than the people who were happy to come in and coin it in by doing overtime while the rest of us lost a days pay [V]

and ok, striking probably won't achieve everything you want, but sometimes it's about standing together and showing the work force can't be pushed around rather than being in it for the gain

id="quote">

What should she do though? She's expressed her disapproval in a democratic way by voting against it. Does Union membership mean you have to go along with everything proposed by the Union? Of course not.

id="quote">

The whole point of a union is to act collectively- even if you don't personally vote to strike, you've committed to act with the majority. If she's not prepared to do this, she ought to resign from the union.