13 year old allowed to die

I'm sad that she and her family were put through this, all because some doctor didn't believe in informed choice. Of course it's terribly sad for the family involved, but how much worse to be forced to undergo surgery against your wishes. I hope she can get on and enjoy the time she's got left in peace now.

I agree it is very sad, but I'm not sure how her courageous choice to die at home amongst those who love her represents "waste of a precious young life".

Its a difficult one isn't it. I cant imagine what the family are going through. Part of me thinks that 13 years old is too young to make this decision but I imagine all the treatment she's been through up until now has made her grow up an awful lot.

It's very sad, as it always is when anyone, but especially children or teenagers have a terminal illness.

However, the girl has been judged competent to make her own decisions in this matter, so her wishes should be respected.

I am horrified that the Health Authority put her and her family through this. After all she has been through I think she would have the maturity and experience to make an informed choice on this and am so glad that her choice has been upheld.

What a sad, brave decision. And how wrong that a Doctor felt the need to go over the heads of her consultants and put her and her family through having to fight for her decision.

I think my comment on a waste of a young precious life was not explained well, I just think of when I was 13 and the exciting life in front of me, people to meet, countries to visit, a life to live and how it was taken for granted. Life is so precious.

A brave wee lass indeed.

"13 year old allowed to die" isn't exactly presentative though, is it? "13 year old allowed to decide whether she lives for a bit longer or not" is more accurate, I'd have thought.

I can't imagine what that family must have gone through to get to this point. As a mother, my brain simply won't allow me to go there, self preservation, I suppose.

We have had friends who with their teenagers have had to make that choice and at some stage we will probably have to regarding Dec and new lungs. I feel that it is sad that the doctors didn't listen to her, her family must be going through hell as it is,

My thoughts are with her and her family,

Really Janna, stop being pedantic and playing on my words! A very emotive subject which I thought was worthy of a mention, and the title of the post is relaying what has been reported on the radio all day, surely anyone's interpretation of the story title is subjective.

The girl has just been on Sky news with her Mum.

I admire her courage to decide that now is not the time for her to have surgery, she has not ruled out 100% of never having it done - the court decision has stopped immediate surgery from taking place.

To be fair, imagine it the other way around:

"Girl dies after Doc fails to refer parents to Social Services - we reveal how parents had encouraged daughter to refuse treatment"

I'm not saying that's what has happened here, but honestly, you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.

I'd allow a 13 year old, of sound mind, to make that choice BTW.

I get what JK says - my understanding that the doc in question was a locum who was faced with what must have been a very difficult situation with very little background information.

I'm glad the child's wishes have now been accepted and I'm sorry for her and her family and that it's been dragged into the press in this way.

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It's not really that pedantic though is it? As I understand it, 10% of heart transplant patients die within a year of transplant and at most it's extra 10 years, with a good chance of developing cancers from the anti-rejection drugs.

What a decision for anyone to make though.

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I think (the bit in bold) is probably a bit pessimistic, depending on the individual's health.

Wikipedia gives:

1 year: 86.1% (males), 83.9% (females) 3 years: 78.3% (males), 74.9% (females) 5 years: 71.2% (males), 66.9% (females)

Also reports cases of up to 29 years survival.

The news report I heard put the matter rather differently- that noone wanted to force the girl to do anything. Rather, given that she's a minor, the authority was concerned that it might not discharge its duty of care to her properly if it simply took her at her word. Going to court was a way of determining that she was capable of making the decision herself, and therefore protected both the girl and the authority. Obviously that's quite a different story to the one on the link- I've no idea where the truth lies.

I can see that it must have added to everyone's distress, whatever the reason. What a terribly sad situation.

As I don't know the girl I am not able to comment on whether or not she is capable of making this decision or not, but that aside, I have to say I'm not wild about the precedent. From what I can gather (although I may be wrong), her initial disease is in remission, and for me that makes it very different from the normal 'right to die with dignity' that we often read about (I don't know who coined that phrase, I really have problems with it).

There are sadly people who will never recover or gain any kind of improvement in quality of life or life expectancy, and in those cases I do believe that this might be the right decision for some people, but I cannot figure out from the reports available whether this is the case or not with this girl.

Very sad situation either way.

D

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not sure why you feel its pedantic. nor am i sure what point you were trying to make with the thread, it clearly wasnt to stimulate debate so i m at a loss as to why. wording is important though, and "allowed to die" does not seem representative to me. "chooses to die" would have been more accurate a nd appropriate, but even then, i m unsure of your point.

Where did the last post go?

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I think the "allowed to die" tag that has been in the press (and on here) is pretty misleading - this is a case of a child refusing further treatment, not someone asking for euthanasia, like other "right to die" cases of people with terminal, degenerative disease who wish to end their lives before they become totally incapacitated.

As far as I understand it, there's nothing in the law that says any person has to accept surgery or other forms of treatment to extend their life past its natural course, it's really not setting a precedent as far as I see.

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Sorry I wasn't clear, I meant the precedent of a 13 yr old being allowed to make the decision (although I do apologise as I don't know if it is precedent, it's just the first time it seems to have been in the media), that's what I'm not sure about, not saying it's wrong, just that I'm not sure. I am not certain where we draw the line, but hopefully that is what the court has been able to decide relating specifically to this case.

And agree re 'allowed to die', it's pretty misleading in this context.

D

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IIRC the precedent for a 13 year old to make their own health decisions was set by the Gillick case about right to know whether child has requested contraception - Gillick competency is the term used to say that a child is under the legal age of competency (16, I think) but has enough understanding and knowledge to make a medical decision by themselves.

By all accounts this particular child made the decision with support from her parents anyway so I think it's only an issue because the locum disagreed or was not fully understanding of their decision.

I think Knownowt's alternative presentation of the case is probably the way the PCT see the situation but the parents seem to have a different opinion.

When I was at school my best friend had a heart transplant at the age of 12. She had a VERY grown up head on her shoulders due to everything she had been through and certainly knew her own mind.

I think this young girl is very brave. A heart transplant is a horrendous procedure to have to go through and no-one should be made to go through anything like that against their wishes.

It's a heartbreaking situation for all involved.