a (somewhat personal) question about Christianity

I think it might be a catholic thing. I don't think we're supposed to "break the seal" at all before marriage (unless of course by accident ?)

I'm pretty sure that in the Catholic church it's considered a sin. Also perhaps some of the more fundamentalist lot - there's a bit somewhere in the Bible where someone (?Jesse?) got in trouble for "spilling his seed on the ground". Your average CofE lot probably don't really discuss it much, but also, sins are much less cut and dried in CofE than in the Catholic church.

I would hope that any Christian youth worker worth their salt would reassure young Christians that masturbation is perfectly normal and healthy. Sadly I suspect that's not all that common.

Isn't it a carnal sin and therefore would have to be confessed to?

Not at all religious but would be interested in the answers - I really ought to pay more attention to religious beliefs and get a bit more educated.

Hmmm, interesting. I'm almost 100% sure that he's not a Catholic, so perhaps it's down to some personal teaching. His entire family are Christians (I think his parents are 'born again' - can you be a 'born again' Catholic? Gosh, I'm so uninformed).

I know he reads Nicky Gumbel books - having just Googled him, he's not RC, but is an Anglican vicar.

Would it be very inappropriate of me to say the following;

'whilst we are on this subject, can it really make you go blind, or if you are male, make you grow hairs on the palms of your hands?'

?

On an interesting note I got told the other day that Muslims cannot be intimate until after sunset during their fasting season. I did not know that - they do not teach you that in school!!

I knew a person who was very strict with that kind of thing and the women weren't supposed to cut their hair? No idea what it was though.

Also I knew a presbyterian who had similar beliefs about sex, alcohol etc.

Nicky Gumbel is an evangelical preacher. Evangelical Christians may well disapprove of it. It all depends really - no hard and fast rules.

Thanks everyone.

<fatuous remark>No wonder S is so keen to settle down and get married ? </fatuous remark>

In response to your question whitetiger have you ever seen the film 'The Name of The Rose' with Christian Slater in it?

It's set in a monastery and at the start there is a scene where they pan round the monks and at least one of them is blind. When we were about 15, my best friend's brother (who was a year younger) once asked why all the monks were blind.

We were in hysterics and her Mum threatened to kill us if we told him.

In response to the OP, having been brought up a good Catholic girl and spectacularly lapsed I don't think it is an RC thing but there are certain groups (like Opus Dei of Da Vinci Code fame) which can take things slightly further than the norm, and of course there are always extremists in any religion.

ETA extremists sounds wrong but all I mean is people who take teachings to the extreme. Didn't mean to offend.

I think it's time for a rousing rendition of 'Every Sperm is Sacred'

[View:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0kJHQpvgB8]

I'm Catholic and have never been told onanism was wrong! Every sperm is indeed sacred but I think it's up to you how you spend 'em. I think your friend may be a bit more fundamentalist than this - some groups take the Bible very literally so that bit about not spilling your seed on the ground etc means no hand shandies at all.

Hilarious! Ages since I've seen that ?

I'm a Catholic too, but don't remember being told masturbation was a sin. Although anything to do with sex was classed as a sin - the nuns were so prudish they just didn't live in the same world everyone else did.

Well nuns and priests aren't allowed to bash the bishop so to speak either so maybe I just assumed neither could the rest of us before getting married ?

There was a girl at my school who was from the reglious group the Plymouth Bretheren and she wasn't allowed to cut her hair. She also wore a headscarf but other than that, I have no idea what she believed because she didn't attend our RE lessons - which is a shame because I would have liked to have learned more about her beliefs.

CBH-I assume she was mormon or Jehovah Witness, I know many of them cover the hair, and don't cut it, and many parents of children in those religions don't allow the children to attend RE

On to the original subject, sexuality in Christianity is quite a grey area, what different beliefs dependant on where you are brought up, parents values, school etc.

The bible teaches that lusting after someone (ie actually actively fantising, not just thinking "ooh he's nice" ) that isn't your husband or wife is a sin. Most people masturbate with someone in their mind, and therefore is a sin.

I am a Christian, but only starting practicing again a little while before I got married, so it would be hypocritical to criticise anyone for sex before marriage, but I totally understand why people would do it, and personally I have seen a lot of good come from it when it is done right (ie not just doing it because you forced, but doing it because you want to) and not just saving intercourse, but your sexuality, but again each to their own, I don't think anyone is going to know all the answers until we are greeted by God after we die.

No, she was definitely Plymouth Bretheren because she told me. She's the only perosn I've ever met from that particular religion though.

Official line is that any act of sex that does not allow for the possibility of conception is wrong. Therefore masturbation, anal sex, oral sex, sex with contraception are all not allowed.

Edited to add link to the Catechism

A friend of ours grew up in a Brethren household. Her dad is a preacher. They're not closed Brethren though, it sounds like the girl at your school was from a closed Brethren community.

Just googled and the term is exclusive, rather than closed, if you wanted to look it up.

I'm a Christian, (CofE) and I believe in no sex before marriage.This extends further than full intercourse though, but what is acceptable & unacceptable is not as clear cut, as the no sex before marriage.

I was also bought up to believe that masturbation is wrong, for the same reasons as Sweetersong cited, becuase of the lusting after someone else & the only person one should lust after is their partner.

They're a non-conformist conservative evangelical bunch. Kind of like methodists, only much more hardline.

Re masturbation and the like I think we were taught that "those organs" weren't for pleasure but for procreation so should not be used for your pleasure per se

As some of you may know from previous discussions on religion, my sister is a JW.

My nephew had a discussion with my son regarding my sons gf.

Nephew asked if son was having intercourse with gf. My son was gobsmacked at the direct way in whcih newphew asked.

He then went on to tell my son that not only must he stay a virgin until he is married, but that he must also refrain from masturbation.

I'm not sure if all Christians practice this belief, but for JW's, masturbation is a no go.

thats true, a female Turkish friend told me this and I said to Mr R he should try. I suggested he either gave food (till sunset) or sex up and I thought asking too much to give up both. He didn't think I was very funny at all told me I was 'stupid'. My friend and I just laughed harder when he got all huffy? He then got huffy with our friend for telling me. Before I get flamed it was all tougue in cheek, and Turkey is (was??) secular and many muslims are not practising muslims- like Mr R.

Don't remeber reading this in any of his books though.

NG is indeed an evangelical, anglican vicar, based at Holy Trinity, Brompton. He wrote the Alpha course though which is very interdenominational.

JWs are not, strictly speaking, Christians though, as they do not belive that Jesus is God (Holy Trinity 3 in 1 etc).

They believe he was a prophet and a witness to Jehovah.

I can't remember exactly, but there is a verse in the bible that talks about 'spilling your seed' or somesuch that some take to mean no masturbation.

This is part of the GCSE RS syllabus (well, Christianity and sex is, anyway). Many Christians (including Catholics, see the Catechism extract above) believe that masturbation is wrong. Some see it as a form of adultery (cheating on your current or future spouse). Catholic belief goes deeper because they see the primary reason for sex being procreation.

Some Christians believe that masturbation is ok. It doesn't really depend on denomination (apart from Catholics), more on the interpretation of scripture, etc.

The seed spilling incident in Scripture isn't about masturbating actually. Judah's eldest son (iirc) died, leaving his wife a widow with no children. Judaic Law had it that the next brother should marry the widow and their first son would be named for the dead husband. Judah's 2nd son married the widow, but didn;t want to raise a son for his brother (assumably he wanted his sons to bear his own name, not his bro's) so he pulled out at the last minute, spilling his semen on the ground so his wife wouldn't get pregnant. It wasn't a solo effort on his part iyswim, it was him dishonouring his brother and disobeying the law that caused the trouble.

Afaik the Bible doesn't say anything specific about masturbation, but it has plenty to say about lust (that looking with lust is tantamount to doing it, so by extension thinking lustful thoughts is in the same category). I saw a talk by Steve Chalke (recorded in the 80s by the look of the hairstyles etc ?) in which he looked at the subject, and his opinion was similar. 'Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.' (Phil 4:8) - rather than lustful thoughts iyswim.

A lot of Christians believe that masturbation is wrong but I don't think it's necessarily denominational.

I'm lapsed brethren (and despite being from Plymouth, not Plymouth Brethren which is slightly different) and I know that in our group some of our young men were told that it is natural to want to do it but that it was the act that was wrong - as someone said above it wasn't honouring to God. (Yes despite being only the boys being told this they couldn't resist and gave their - probably garbled - version of the chat to us girls!).

Here's the traditional explanation abouyt why it's a sin (the bloke in the bible was Onan).

"The classical Jewish commentators - who can scarcely be accused of ignorance regarding Hebrew language, customs, law, and biblical literary genres - certainly saw in this passage of Scripture a condemnation of both unnatural intercourse and masturbation as such. A typical traditional Jewish commentary puts it thus: "[Onan] misused the organs God gave him for propagating the race to unnaturally satisfy his own lust, and he was therefore deserving of death."

It still makes me ? that people will take so literally isolated passages from a bunch of papers written not directly by God, and which have been selectively chosen by ordinary men to be a religious text. I'm sure there were other writers at the time saying 'and God gaveth unto us this organ, which giveth us much pleasure with a tug, use it often my brethren and praise ye the lord his goodness as you do' - but it just didn't make the final cut.