Advice needed, loooong post!

Hitched - can you tell me why the word lesb0 is considered obscene?

Alright, so. I know a couple of trans people and I also know someone who neither identifies as male nor female. It's sometimes a difficult area to talk and think about. BUT I think with regard to the trans woman feeling comfortable and happy at your wedding, you just can't worry about that. She will be very aware of how well she passes (or not) and likely faces people staring at and talking about her every day. It's usually an integral part of transitioning. If your friends make comments to her, that's their problem for having no manners/sensitivity. It seems blatantly obvious to me that transitioning is a difficult period in someone's life and you don't make it worse for them by taking the piss.

The attention thing I kind of get. Last week one of my H2B's friends announced she's pregnant and the baby is due right around the time of our wedding. It's also big drama cos the father is married and most of her friends seem to know about the situation. Even though I don't know this girl, I felt briefly jealous that she might 'steal our thunder' on facebook with her baby. I just had to give myself a serious talking to! And you need to do the same

The stuff about your friendship...that's more difficult. You can't really un-invite her, so I think you just gotta roll with it now. Perhaps after the wedding it's time for a good old think about where your friendship is headed in the long term.

This is a difficult one, but mainly because I think your own situation (sorry!!) May be making you slightly over sensitive. To address the issue of your friend, you cannot uninvite her or take away her plus one and that means that ultimately you may be forced to accept her gf as a guest.

Now, while I completely understand your discomfort regarding how your other friends may react, the gf does seem to be used to this and therefore should be prepared for it. And if this relationship is to last then j will also have to get used to it. The world is not always understanding of difference and while this is unfair, it is also not your problem to solve x

However, you and your OH will be the stars of your day. It won't matter who else is there, what they are wearing or what else occurs I promise you. If you feel you must say something, then warn j how your other friends could take the pi$$ and let her make the decision herself. Regarding her other issues, just carry on being her friend as that is all you can do xxx

In my opinion, gay, straight, transexual shouldn't be a deciding factor in whether she gets invited or not. People shouldn't make hurtful comments, she's a person with feelings, if they do then it's not your fault, you can't control what other people say and do. Having said that you're perfectly in your rights to say you haven't known her long enough for her to come to your wedding. If you do decide to invite her you could always have a quiet word with J warning her about the possible comments.

Agree with this.

Are there specific people you're concerned about making comments? If so, it might be worth telling them in advance that there will be a trans woman there and just remind them to be tactful.

It seems it comes down to a few questions, which would be the same whether the new GF was transgender or not really.

1) Can you un-invite your friend, as you're now questioning the friendship? No, not if you're still friends and have not actually fallen out. Rude.

2) Can you dictate who the +1 is that your friend brings? No. That's just telling her her GF isn't good enough. Rude.

3) Should you protect the new GF from comments from others? No. Your wedding will probably not be any different to them going to a restaurant together, people might stare/comment or might not. It won't be out of the ordinary. You cannot worry about this on the day, as whilst it's sweet, it's not your place.

4) Can you protect your bubble (or 'thunder') by not having someone at the wedding who might be the talk of it? If you wanted to do that, you might have to exclude anyone else from attending who is potentially pregnant, newly engaged, just married a celebrity, is having an affair with the milkman, etc etc. Or perhaps anyone who is the 'class joker' who tends to draw all the attention at parties because they're so funny??? Choosing to exclude the GF only for this (potential) reason is blindly bigoted perhaps.

If your friend loses her job, she might not be able to afford the trip abroad anyway, so problem solved???

In your position I would let this run the course and whatever happens, happens. I wouldn't be uninviting people or saying the GF can't come. I might fore-advise certain people at the wedding to not be surprised that there will be a transgender woman there, like a grandma or something, if it might give them the chance to ask me questions about it, rather than having grandma say something inappropriate. But this would only be to one or two (older) people.

This^^ and I'm going to be blunt here. You have already highlighted that years ago there might have been a discussion about whether to invite someone who was a lesbian as she might bring a guest who was a girl and it would be obvious and a talking point. It wasn't acceptable then and this isn't acceptable now. But really this in some ways is worst - you aren't basing it on her being a transsexual, you are basing it on the fact that it is obvious she is.

I can understand not wanting a stranger at your wedding but basing it on how she looks is just plain wrong. If she agrees to wear a suit like a bloke for the day and forego the makeup would she be let in? Where do you draw the line as to what is acceptable looks wise and not a talking point?

And would your friends really be hurtful or tease someone they didn't know over how she looks?! Sorry but I find that quite awful. My OH friends do the banter thing but I know they are good people and would not upset anyone - and we have 'different' plus ones coming to our wedding. A guy with one eye and a limp, who is lovely but people do notice his eye. A pompous git who is just plain weird looking and thinks everyone from Yorkshire is a peasant. Would I consider not inviting the guest to ensure the plus one isn't there? Not unless I was happy to completely forego the friendship forever.

The friendship thing is a completely separate issue and one you should consider completely separately after the wedding. I have a lot of sympathy with having a friend who is draining, not just a few times, but constantly. Ditching her at the minute though sounds like it has more to do with the above than the friendship.

Thanks all for your comments, You're really only saying what I already knew. Sometimes you just need to get it all out and get some responses.

I know I need to address my friendship with her, and that's an entirely different issue to the gf thing. We talked about this last night and mentioned the possibility of laying down the law with some of our gobbier friends ... it's hard to explain, no-one is horrible to one another, in fact, if they're taking the mick out of you it's usually because they like you - but I guess someone who might feel a little sensitive might find them hard to take.

ClaireD* - I can't deny I'm not offended by your post though.

I don't see anything blind in that.

Cinnamon009 - I missed your comment before I responded above. I can't be bothered to pick your response apart and tell you where you've misunderstood - but you're wrong on so many of your points.

I totally expected to be judged a little by some people on here for what I was saying, but I was being as honest as I could about how I was feeling, you were one of the last I would have expected to have been quite so accusatory!

I would probably just have a quiet word with your friends and your mum if you do get notification of the GF attending. Just maybe tell them that their usual humour may not be appreciated in front of J in the current circumstances.

I think most brides get worried about something else being the big topic on their wedding day, I rarely think that happens though. You and your bride will look soo lovely in your dresses no-one would even think to talk about anything other than you two and your special love.

Agree with others that once the wedding is over you may need to address you friendship with J. Just sit her down and talk through your concerns about your friendship, she may not even realise she isn't asking about how you are when you meet up.

Sorry if this is no real advice but good luck!

Oh sorry !!!

I didn't mean to offend you. I think it just sounded brusque the way I wrote it. Funnily enough, I wrote another message STRAIGHT after I posted that one, which was very complimentary, and then deleted it rather than hitting 'post' as I thought I was being a t**t.

Give me a minute, and I'll retype it.....

Dammit, it's not on 'recently closed tabs'. What I typed and then just closed the window, was something like:

It's clear that your heart is in the right place, and you seem to just be wanting to hear a critique of your thoughts reflected back to you. You already know what's right and wrong about this issue, but it is true that sometimes something just keeps niggling at us that can make us make the wrong decision accidentally if we carry on ruminating on it. This is why Hitched can be helpful as it tells us what we already know, and can stop us worrying so much.

What I think has been lovely to see is that people have been kind in their responses. Not only kind in a non-bigoted way, but kind to you, as they know you aren't a cow and wouldn't upset anyone for the world. No one has responded as if they think you would dream of doing something mean, and have just tried to put your mind at rest that they agree with you that you are right - it would be unreasonable to allow this issue to impact your guest-list choices.

Now, how flippin ironic is that? I actually originally went all mushy about it's nice to see your own thoughts reflected back to you as a critique, and NOT as a criticism as no one would think you are actually GOING to physically do something like uninvite them. My post has now been read and interpreted as the exact thing that I was thinking it's nice NOT TO SEE. Balls to me and my crappy typing. I can only apologise as my intent was the opposite.

ps. I meant "no that would be rude, which is why you're not doing it" Not "you are rude". In line with the above. Does this make sense or am I making it worse?

Sillywrong, I think that having canvassed opinions on such a sensitive subject, which clearly covers so many subtle issues that it would be impossible to have a full explanation/analysis in one post, you possibly shouldn't be so defensive about the responses ?

Issue 1: friendship/ongoing problems with J. To be reassessed/worked on/supported after the wedding. Don't worry about it now.

Issue 2: your friends/family and their banter. Head it off early. No need for any dramatic pronouncements, but a gentle request to a few mates you know will keep it under control that it is not up for discussion and it is something to be viewed from a position of sensitivity. Perhaps a more direct firm warning to those who may still test the boundaries.

Issue 3: your Mum. Honestly, the kindly words of a try-hard women trying (perhaps clumsily) to make people feel comfortable will be very low down the list of what constitutes inappropriate behaviour for someone who likely deals with discrimination and nastiness on a regular basis.

Issue 4: your worry about everyone having a nice time. They are grown ups, drink the wine and have a blast.

Issue 5: dress woes. Well, at the risk of being called "rude", I will elect to keep my opinion on this to myself ?

Issue 6: discrimination against gay people. Sadly, you're kidding yourself if you think this only happened years ago. There are posts over on WP that pop up every now and again about how to prepare family members (who may joke/mock/jeer) for gay guests (or Muslim guests, or hippy dippy veggie guests, or whatever). My advice has always been to head it off at the pass (see Issue 2).

My gut reaction? Your concern about J and her chaotic life is entirely justified, but I'm faintly horrified about your feelings on having her girlfriend at your wedding. I can't imagine feeling like you do, but then, I'm not the one confronting the situation. I hope that just typing it all out has helped you feel better about it.

Thank you all, and sorry for snapping, I thought my skin was thicker than it is, evidently.

I do appreciate your honest feedback - after all, you're giving me what I asked for! I guess we just need to address our own feelings on the matter - which is kind of what we knew already!

I think the way I feel about my friendship with J has only exacerbated any niggling feelings I may have started out with re her gf coming as a +1.

Ah bugger, I meant to add something to this effect to my post. I definitely think you are projecting the low-level bad feeling about the friendship onto the separate issue of the girlfriend.

Didn't want to read and run, but to be honest, I have no advice to add, I think you've worked it out for yourself!

Good luck working things out with your friend after the wedding.

xx

I thought ClaireD's first post was bang on. She wasn't calling you rude at all, she was saying if you took the example course of action that would be rude, which it would!

I can't get past the fact you're being a wee bit judgy, considering as you've admitted yourself it wasn't that long ago you'd have been judged yourself. In saying that, you've admitted that you knew in yourself you were being 'bigoted' in your own words, and that you felt bad about it. I agree with Footlong, you've got to accept honest replies.

Thanks ? That was totally what I meant. And I was really annoyed at myself for not making that clear, especially when my apology and explanation sort of got lost in the midst of things. I'm quite glad that it didn't read that poorly to every single person, even to just one other!

I'd shown my OH this thread over dinner because of this. His conclusion was that forums (only one I've ever been on) are not my thing, since this bothered me ?

I remember when I was like that. But you learn to...I dunno, not necessarily place less importance on these things, but just let them bother you less. But even now I tend to be a bit like this:

? When we were going to bed last night, husband said "don't sit there for another 20 minutes on the internet, hurry up". When I got to the bedroom, he'd actually set the timer on his phone. 15 mins 47 seconds. He said he's going to change the password on the wi-fi today ?

My thoughts exactly. I think we are all guilty of this sometimes when someone is annopying us -everything they do seems to annoy us!

I think there are lots of different issues going on here. If you have given your friend a plus one then you can't tell them who they can or can't invite. A good friend of mine is transgender and came to my hen weekend. Before the hen do l contemplated letting people know she is female incase there were any awkward moments when she was called "he". In the end l didn't as l thought l would not make a thing out of it because it isn't a big thing.

Weighing in a little late here, and most of the things that I would have said have already been expressed by others.

However, I too have a worry about overly "bantery" guests, and people making inappropriate comments, largely due to the fact that I know the level of alcohol intake that my family are likely to indulge in - my father and my uncle are prime offenders, though they most often descend into singing outside...

I've just had to take Debrett's advice on the subject (yes I know, seems odd to look at the quintessential English book of manners in this case!) and conclude that brides are not to be bothered with such trivia on their special day. I will have a few nominated people keeping an eye out for trouble, but I don't want to know anything about it. It might be the best way to deal with your attention/thunder thing too, just lose yourself in your bride and having the most wonderful day of your life. ?