Advice: Problem with photographer

Hmm, my first thought is why didn't he just call you on your mobile? I always take the telephone number with me and call if I am running late. I know nowadays it's trendy to use texts/social media but sometimes a phone call is just easier!

The portfolio thing bothers me. I usually recommend you see full weddings as your wedding won't be full of portfolio shots. You need to see his style and consistency throughout a whole day.

But more fundamental than that seem to have lost trust in him and it's so important that you trust your photographer and want to be photographed by him. I'm a big believer that if you feel awkward around him then it will show in the photos. In short without trust you could be in trouble.

Your next step though is a dilemma. Can you find another photographer who you love enough to photograph your wedding in three months time? Most good photographers will be booked up already. Plus it depends on how much the deposit was and if you are willing to forgo it.

Hello,

I am very surprised about the behavior of this photographer. I would never leave a place knowing that couple is already on the way. Looks like this photographer doesn't really care about his reputation and his clients, which from my point of view is really unacceptable. Of course I don't know the reasons from the other side, but what you describe is quite bad. I would suggest also to think about what will happen after the wedding when full money is already paid. Now at least he has clear interest for you not to cancel, but after the wedding he might start behave even worse.

I would suggest to try arrange a call or a meeting where you put all your concerns clearly to him and see what his reaction is, but if it doesn't go well now I would not take any risk. The bottom line is that you would not want to take any chance when it comes to the matter around your biggest day.

It's also a very worrying sign that he could not show you any real wedding. I would think that for full time wedding photographer it would not be a problem.

If you are worrying about loosing your deposit, bear in mind that there are photographers around who offer discount for late availability weddings. So it could be some or even full compensation of your deposit, depends on the size of one.

I really hope it will all be sorted very soon. Very best of luck. Hope I could help.

I think the major concern is that he was unable to show you examples of full weddings he has photographed. I don't want to worry you, but a "photographer" called Steve Jackson stole some of my wedding photos off my Facebook page and he passed them off to brides as examples of his own work. There were quite a lot of photographers he took his portfolio from. It's really important to satisfy yourself that someone actually is a wedding photographer.

Secondly, this issue of him leaving the shoot when he knew you were parking is really odd. I think you need to start at the beginning and check his portfolio properly. Email and ask for three passwords to recent client galleries so that you can view full weddings delivered to previous brides.

If there has been misrepresentation and he doesn't have previous wedding photography clients then you may be eligible for a refund under consumer law, regardless of what his contract says.

This is Odd. Over the years, we get very used to brides being late...it goes with the territory......

It is fairly easy to do a photo check to see if his photos are really his? As people on here have known over the years I have been a member of hitched, I have no axe to grind and give honest opinions. If you want me to check out his images, please do let me know.

This also raises an issue on the day for all brides...allow adequate time for the make up, specifically if you are only having one tog or if you run late it means that you will lose images of the arrivals, groom, best man etc etc....

Peter

If you want any of us to look over his website then just drop us an email.

********@************.**.**

Any of us can check the guy out for you. Send his details over to Bruce and let him check the site. It really is best to get some advice at this point.

Thank for all the replies so far!

I'm not really concerned about his work as he's since started blogging his weddings and do have a good collection for each wedding he has shot. He's also been featured in quite a few wedding blogs and other hitchers have used him. I think he didn't want to show me more photography at the start because he feels that he's so successful that he doesn't see why he needs to prove to me that he can shoot a full wedding. I almost feel that my business means very little to him and that I'm lucky to have him to shoot my wedding. We are paying him a lot of money and I'm not sure I should be made to feel this way.

I have contacted another photographer that work uses. He's happy to knock quite a bit off for me which means that if I cancel my existing photographer, I will only lose £50 which is nothing at all. The potential photographer is very good but he's a commercial photographer (advertisement, editorial etc) rather than a wedding photographer. Does this matter at all?

I've just booked a tog and a big part of why I went with the one I did was because she was so quick to reply to any messages and she was very understanding when we were late to a meeting. Communication is so important!

Yes it does matter, what will he do in the evening when light fades away, bring all his studio lights ?

You are going to get other photographers explaining why its a bad idea to get this new photographer who I take it has never photographed a wedding before but seriously if he has never shot a wedding before then he is in for a shock.

The first bit that matters is that you must be comfortable, confident and happy with your photographer, since the photographer will be spending a fair portion of the day with you.

A commercial photographers tend to work in a more predictable and controlled environment, so it is probably a good idea to check with the commercial photographer how comfortable they will be in a dynamic, changing environment.

Hi Mandy

I've met a fair few 'top' wedding photographers and often I leave wondering if they are just supremely confident or arrogant. Sometimes there's a very fine line so I can totally understand where you are coming from.

As others have said, I wouldn't necessarily be so quick to jump from an established wedding photographer to an lesser experienced commercial photographer. If you've checked out his previous work and are happy then fair enough.

Is there no happy medium of finding another wedding photographer elsewhere? I know it's relatively late but nowadays there are a lot of us around

I don't see anything wrong from the photographer in this situation.

They contacted you to arrange the shoot as agreed, they were there on time, you left late for the shoot and missed it. They may of had other commitments.

Communications should of been better but it's interesting that they emailed saying it was unfortunate the shoot didn't take place. Which suggests the messages weren't received at all in the first place. It also suggests a professional commitment to you.

Firing this tog for a tog at your workplace offering a big discount runs all the chances of going from the proverbial frying pan into the fire.

I'm a wedding & event photographer who also does quite a lot of commercial photography. Personally, I would not book the commercial photographer unless they were able to show you full weddings. There are skills that overlap, but there's also a big people management component to wedding photography that doesn't come into play so much with commercial work. Also, the commercial photography environment he works in could be studio based and using flashes... without looking into what he actually does it's really hard to say whether he has ANY relevant experience with which to shoot your wedding.

If you are satisfied that the first photographer is good and has loads of experience then I think you'd be mad to switch to someone who you have no idea is up to the job.

I should probably explain that although the prospective photographer advertises himself as an advertisement/editorial photographer, the company I work for is a creative events and design agency so often we commission him to shoot events. The events are usually 1 to 3 days events anything from fashion range launch to corporate events with breakout sessions, gala dinner and performances etc. I'm hoping that if he can do events, he can do weddings. I've seen thousands of photographs shot by this photographer, it's part of my job to go through his images and select a handful for press release. My existing tog also do commercial photography and I would say that prospective tog is better than him in that department.

The discount prospective tog has given me is because he's trying to help me out rather than seeing it as a money earning opportunity. He did say to me that it would be a shame to lose the deposit, is there no way of sorting things out?

Ultimately, it's a big decision so I'm not going to rush to make a decision. I just wish existing tog would reply to my email so I know what's going on. His reply would really help me make a decision. It's not because I don't think prospective tog will do as good as job as him (I think there's a good chance he could but it's for me to find out), I just really hate the thought of pulling out of a contract with someone.

If the new guy does corporate conferences, gala dinners and other events then that is relevant experience. It's a very difficult decision... worth you contacting Tog 1 and discussing the whole situation with him first. If he comes across as arrogant and uncaring then ditch him if you are confident about Tog 2's abilities.

Well the event photographer is going to be better than the wedding photographer at events because he shoots events more than the wedding photographer, now turn that around and the wedding photographer will shoot weddings better than the event photographer.

Even though the event photographer will know a bit about lighting will he know what to look out for shooting a wedding, of course he wont, he wont have a clue what he is supposed to photograph and he will miss important parts of the wedding.

Its your choice, your first photographer I am sorry to say sounds like a a..e and think it was wrong of him to just go when he knew you were parking up and as for the he might have had another appointment well how long was he going to do the pre shoot for then if you were only 15 minutes late, it doesn't make sense to leave a client like that knowing they are there (but then we don't have his side of the story).

Edited to say its not normal, you are too trusting and polite to make a fuss and that's when people take advantage.

What ever you decide have a lovely stress free wedding?

I think everyone should hold their horses here. I have to agree with Chris.

Let's look at this objectively for a minute.

Firstly when you knew you were going to be late ideally you should have rang him ... no? I mean you knew you'd be late why not just ring him and speak to him directly to say "we are running late, we'll be with you in 20 minutes" That probably would have solved the whole problem.

He should have done the same thing probably, instead of tweeting you he probably should have just rang you to ask.

So at that stage you are both in the wrong. It would seem that he hadn't got your message saying you were parking otherwise why would he have left?

Ok so then he sends an email, you reply and there is no reply back. I have to say in this world we seem to think by sending an email the job is done, we sit and wait for the reply. Emails get lost, get forgotten, other jobs take over.

Give the guy a ring - speak to him find out what happened, talk to each other on a human level and work out what you can do about it before you go making any decisions.

Also I have to say, the other togs in this thread throwing another professional under the bus without really getting the whole story is poor form in my opinion.

I really would just advise you to give the guy a ring. If you do and again you get the bad feeling or it doesn't come acorss like he cares etc then at least you know for sure and you can do with that what you'd like and if that means finding another tog then so be it, you need to have trust and feel comfortable on your special day

best of luck

Reading yet another post regarding how bad a photographer (or any kind of supplier) is at communication truly makes me wonder how people stay in business...

As far as your dilemma is concerned, missmandymoo, much good advice and professional insight has already been given so all I will say is that I hope for the best outcome possible for you!

Andrea de Gabriel

It makes my blood boil?

Thanks Andrea. I am thankful for all the professional advice and insight I've received from you all, this is truly a fantastic community. Thank you to you all.

An update on this. I do have to end the relationship with my existing tog, he eventually replied with a very short message accepting my apologies but the worse thing is that I have since spoken to his past clients and it's not good. I don't want to go into it but OH does not want him at our wedding now so we can't continue with him anymore. I'm aware that I will lose the deposit but are there any additional costs I should concern myself with if I was to end the contract with him? His T&Cs says nothing about cancellation. I've checked it with a solicitor and they said he would have to show proof of lost of earnings in order to be able to charge additional fees. Solicitor reckons it's unlikely to happen due to legal fees outweighing the additional fees he could charge me. But there is small claims court. As a tog would you keep the deposit and let things be? Or would you try to charge the couple additional fees?

on the other hand, tog 2 has turned out to be an experienced and very good wedding photographer. Advertising and editorial is his niche so he only advertises himself as that hence why I thought he's not done weddings before. Is it likely that as a professional freelance photographer who has shot numerous events in listed buildings and stately homes, he has public liability insurance? I feel a bit stupid asking him that question but my venue does insist on it.

Oh dear, at least you have discovered the problems now.

All professional photographers carry PL & PI insurance so just send your new chap an email to let him know the venue have asked and he might need to bring his certificate with him. If he doesn't have it then he will probably declare it at that point!

In the case of the ex-photographer he will retain the deposit but it's highly unlikely he will request further payment. I assume you have checked the contract and there's no mention of any clauses that could imply he'd chase for more?

Sadly this is the case.......

There is a clause regarding additional fees at the discretion of the tog in the event of postponement but not cancellation.

Look on the bright side. At least you found out now rather than a month after the wedding when you get your photos back!

Yes as others have said, the first tog will more than likely retain the deposit since you are the one cancelling. It is extremely unlikely he will pursue you for anything further because firstly as your solicitor pointed out, the cost of his legal fees not to mention the complexity & burden of proof will make it extremely difficult.

But also if he's got any smarts about him then he won't want you to risk damaging his reputation. With social media and the Internet nowadays it's very very easy to damage your reptuation. Let's face it, what's the first thing you'd probably do if he tried to sue you? Probably rant about it to friends, family and nowadays tweet about it and put it on your Facebook status, maybe a wedding group or two. Stuff like that spreads like wildfire and before you know it thousands of people will have heard xxx photography is suing a client for cancelling cos he's rubbish.

It's just something if he has any brains, he'd avoid like the plague.

I would be very careful about slagging a business off on the net whether its your fault or not, I know of a case just like this and the couple went on to a forum running this photographer down, he recorded everything that was said and then sued them for not only the out standing balance but for what they said on a forum.

Bruce, to be clear, I wasn't encouraging. I'm just saying that it happens and something I think the photographer would consider. There was something similar a while back in one of my wedding groups where a bride was slating a photographer for 'letting her down' but when I dug into it, it turns out that she'd put a deposit down before signing the contract. Then claimed there should have been an album when the photographer said there wasn't. So he'd reasonably offered her money back but she took to Facebook instead.

My point is at that stage the damage is done regardless of who is right/wrong. Of course she never mentioned the album bit and just posted that she'd been let down by him. Unfortunately mud sticks and this is a service industry that operates in a large part on trust.

I know what you mean Martin but my advice is always seek proper legal advice, don't go by someones legal advice from a forum, there are to many people giving legal advice that don't know what they are talking about.

Just as Paula says. I had couples and event managers asking me for proof of my insurance. Without any problem I just emailed them with my policy, and I never had an issue with it.

I am glad that you found out what the photographer like, but being honest I would just let him go without any negative campaign If you found him through some bridal site, than leave a feedback and forget it after all. If you have signed a contract or even just he mentioned to you that it's retainer not deposit, or its not refundable you won't really get it back. In the best case you will win some minimal amount of money after few months of court case, and let's face it, this sort of stress is the last thing you need before your wedding. I would still try to contact him and explain that if you can not agree than you have to use your solicitors.

I personally believe that his behaving was unprofessional leaving you there without a notice, but if he didn't get your message for any reason, he easily could have thought that you are not coming. I am not trying to defend the photographer either you, but this situation could have been solved on time soo easily, and this is why I believe it won't stand on the court very well.

Congratulations to your new photographer then! I am glad that it turned out that he is a good wedding photographer and you are happy with his services.
PS.: An insurance can be signed within 5 minutes

Bruce, I have seeked legal advice. The solicitor said that tog 1 would have to show proof of loss of earnings to take legal action so I'm asking professionals who work in the industry whether this is something a tog would consider doing. I plan to end the relationship with tog 1 amicably. I feel I need to explain to him why we can't continue with him, that his action on the day of the pre-wedding shoot surprised us, we did not see it coming and that we feel that the connection with him is now loss. It's important that we have trust and faith in our photographer and unfortunately we no longer do.

Hope I didn't come across too harsh missmandymoo it wasn't intended, its just that there are too many experts on the net and you should really take proper legal advice, which you have, its all very well asking other photographers but you are going to get too many different opinions/answers and it will only confuse you.

I know of one photographer who a couple canceled on, in his contract there was a scale of how much the client had to pay depending on how close it was to the wedding, they canceled on him 3 months before which meant in his contract they had to pay half the total amount, his clients were lawyers and they paid it but there are too many variables in each case to say whether the photographer would win or not or whether your photographer would take it any further.

Hope that explains my post a bit better?

Oh and I'm glad you got it sorted out.?

I would totally agree with this. Whatever the emotional and gut feeling, the law will see things in the black and white of the contract.

Peter