Am I over reacting.. (work related)

I don't think you're over-reacting. If the system was agreed originally then she can't change it because she's not happy with what she's got. As someone who worked in the kitchen I thought it was quite unfair that the floor staff got to keep all the tips - if the food wasn't good then there would be no tip, so why shouldn't the kitchen staff get a share?

If she's not happy with it, then tough. Would you be able to declare your tips to the taxman, thereby keeping your name clear in the event of an investigation? Or could you report it if they decided not to declare tips?

this is my point with her before, the tips are for the food. People expect a smiley faced person serving, why would you settle for anything less!? She thinks because she served them she is entitled to the 20.00 tip!

I could get my tips declared but then I just feel I am totally free of responsibility if I pull out completely from what really works out to be 30.00 a month! Its not a huge amount of money and there is alot of ill feeling already over the whole thing. I am really tempted to have a word with her, let her know what my "proper" job is and that I will have no problem letting my colleagues at HMRC know that she is not declaring her full earnings, just to scare her, the cocky little madam that she is. (can you tell I don't like her)

ooohhh! Yes, you should do that!

I don't much about how it all works but I don't think you are over reacting. If it makes you uncomfortable and puts you in a difficult situtaion then you definitely have to say something. What an awful situation though.

What job do you do? You say you do self assessment, do you mean theirs?

I agree with everything but your point 'the tips are for the food' made me think a bit?

Are they? I've always considered it to be 'service charge' and I don't leave tips when I've had bad service. You say that you wouldn't expect anything but a smiley waitress, but then I wouldn't expect anything other than good food either.

But then, in the restaurant I worked in when I was at college, the kitchen staff got a higher hourly wage because they didn't get tips.

It's not that I'm saying that tips aren't about the food, but not that they are all about the food as your post suggests.

I think the issue here is that your restaurant needs to decide on its tipping policy (which I can see you've been trying to do) and then enforce that without causing any one member (i.e. you) a problem with honesty, etc.

If you consider tips a service charge then surely that includes the people who cooked it for you and washed up your crockery etc? That is a service too isn't it? As an aside, I thought the fact that the meal costs a lot more in a restaurant than when you've cooked it yourself goes some way to paying the staff to serve you, cook for you and clean up after you (and of course all the other overheads which are involved!).

I'm not totally disagreeing with you - I think the tip is for the whole package, not just the food or just the waiting staff (see my earlier post).

nf X

No, I do my own as I rent out my own house as I live in barracks with my H just now.

ok, I do agree its not all about the food but I do think that someone leaving 20.00 is leaving it not just as they had a smiley waitress, its the whole package from pot cleaning to cooking, Her arguement in return was that she is a professional and for example would not allow dirty plates to go to guests but then thats part of her job, like mine is to make sure that my department staff don't over book rooms and allocate doubles to mum and daughter etc .. It certainly doesn't mean that I should pocket the cash when they check out does it. ?

I'm just heading into work and going to basically tell the boss that they have put in me in a difficult position with the comments last night regarding the non declaration of tips and that I feel I no other choice other than to hand it back to them as I am not prepared to have my integrity questioned by anyone . (what i forgot to mention was H was stopped last night by mum of staff member who was gossiping about the fact that I was making the staff pay tax and how unfair it all was as it was their own money given to them as a gift).

peanut - soon to be culled by the management I suspect athough will feel tonnes better for being a little bit less stressed!

First of all, I always try to stat the right side of the law, no point pising about and one persons tantrum getting everyone in trouble.

Secondly, just to add to the debate about tips, I used to work as a waitress and we used to get peed off that the chefs used to get loads of tips. Yes I know the tip also is for the food but thats why we charged £18 for a steak, the chefs experience is already refleted in his higher wage and higher food price whereas if the minimum wage waitress slapped the £18 steak down in front of a customer and ignored to run around after him/her like a slave all evening there would be no tip. It was a hotel so the same goes for housekeeping, reception etc. Anyway, I know this is O/T but thought I would give another side ! ? Tips was/is always a fraught and contested area !

Then we're in agreement ? - the post I was responding implied it was about the food not the service. I do think it's about the whole thing but then it's also down to policy, as in the restaurant I worked for it 'was' about the service as the kitchen staff got paid more because they didn't get tips.

I see your point, and I have worked on both sides. However, I think the price charged for the food includes some kind of table service, I expect to be served by someone who is polite and looks after your needs. I think also that if the customer is not happy with the food they have received, then not only should the waiting staff deal with it politely etc, but also that the kitchen staff make every effort to provide a replacement quickly and to the customers liking. They should also keep the food for the rest of the table warm while the issue is resolved (eg cooking another meal). If the kitchen staff didn't do this, then there would be no tip either. The chef gets more money because they have been trained. With the exception of silver service, you'd be hard-pushed to say that about waiting staff (I certainly had no qualifications in order to do waitressing).

Like you say, tips is a minefield! One place I worked (years ago, summer job) kept all the tips through the whole season and used them to pay for a Christmas do for everyone who had worked that season - some couldn't work the whole season due to University commitments etc, so I thought this was really good. And, I never had to pay tax on my tips - that is a whole other issue/can of worms...

Then we are!! I misunderstood - I thought by calling the tip the service charge you were referring only to the waitress service, whereas the kitchen staff are also providing you with a service by cooking and cleaning up etc.

To clarify my standpoint: in my opinion, the tip (or service charge) is a reflection of the entire "restaurant experience", from the way you are greeted on arrival, how good the food is, how quickly and satisfactorily (??!!) problems (if any) are resolved, how polite and attentive the waiting staff are, how clean/comfortable the restaurant is, ambience... etc. There are certain standards of food and attention I expect when I go out to eat, usually set to an extent by the price. If I think I have had better food or attention than expected I will leave a tip which reflects it. If not, I don't. Except for once on holiday where I would have sent it all back and refused to pay - in that instance I did leave a tip. 1 Euro cent. Just so they didn't think I was a typical foreigner who didn't know about tipping - I thought it was more insulting than nothing at all!

I am more inclined to agree now I am no longer in the buisiness. Customers are different though, we were quite often asked whether or not we received the tips directly or not as some people wanted the waiter/ess to have it directly, other things like weddings would just leave a big tip no doubt presuming that it was split between front of house, kitchen etc. I guess everyone different which is why its soooo bludy contentious!

the worst policy was that one year they said that people who didn't work all year wouldn't get tips (it was complicated to work out)!!!!! Us uni students were well peed off as you can imagine and it didn't encourage everyone to hand in tips they picked up ! I think they had to go back on it in the end!

*prepares for out of indignant posting*

In 20 odd years, on and off,of being associated with the licenced/catering/entertainment trade I can honestly say that this is the first time I've ever even heard mention of tips being declared to the tax man.....

This is interesting about tips as when i tip in a restaurant it is based on the service, not on the food. I could have great food but if the service was bad, I wouldn't tip at all.

L
xx

The regulations changed a few years ago, and the government decided that tips should be included as if they were wages. It caused a huge outcry at the time because the wages were reduced because they are thought to be topped up with tips. (Someone else might know more specifics than me, I am no longer in the trade, and haven't been since before the changes came in). This is why they are declared for tax now. Or at least, should be.

Which is outrageous imo, tips aren't guaranteed and shouldn't be relied upon to bring the wage up to what it should be.

Would you tip if the service had been great but the food was crap?

(Still having problems with the use of the term service - kitchen staff etc are providing you with a service by cooking for you and cleaning up after you, it's not just about whether someone is smiling as they put your plate on the table and pour your wine).

At the moment I work over three venues (bars), two different owners.

In one place tips are equally split btween all barstaff on duty, in the other two (same management) each member keeps what they get. I can see advantages to both systems

We complained about H's meal in a restaurant a couple of weeks ago - they didn't charge us for his meal. This is what I would expect ref the food - a reduction to the bill. We still tipped the service

L
xx

I used to go out with a girl who seemed to think complaining about some aspect of the food/service was compulsory.

This thread is really interesting, and what it says to me is that restaurants need to be a bit clearer about their tipping policy, especially if these days it is considered a formal part of wages rather than extras.

Although I do think it covers everything in principle , I'd be much less likely to leave a tip if the service is bad, not least because I always leave a cash tip and this obviously gets picked up by the waiter. I do also agree that if the food was bad, I'd ask for a reduction in the bill rather than reducing the tip.

It would be nice, as a customer, to know where my tips go and how they get shared (in outline) so I could know I was tipping correctly.

An old housemate of mine used to work for an expensive restaurant - the tips were used to pay the staff wages. I never tipped there.

Tax should be paid on tips https://www.gov.uk/tips-at-work/tips-and-tax

I know it should.

But what I said previously still holds true.