**bt** *sens* Please excuse my rant.

Gah, it makes me so angry that people still do this. I know people who have lost babies or can't have them and it's so wrong to throw it around so flippantly.

You should probably put bt in the title though x

No, I know what you mean. For a long time after I had my miscarriage I was very sensitive about that stuff, and sometimes I still can be, even though it was 10yrs ago. I worried that I was being precious about people sharing pics of their scans or whatever, but jokes about it are just not necessary. Unfortunately people don't think about this stuff.

That is shocking! What is wrong with people.

Whoops apologies ladies, will amend that I didn't think!! (Ironic moaning about lack of sensitivity and I do that!!)

Yeah it bothers me too. I went through a lot of trouble a few years ago where I was told I couldn't have them. It all ended up being a mix up but I just don't know what to think, and will just wait until we start trying before I think about it again. Seeing people joking that they're having kids does get me a bit.

Although I did find the scan picture which had alien in it amusing. It was surprising how many people didn't notice that it wasn't actually a baby!

Why would anyone do that? i've never seen that before.

I'd probably PM them and say it's not funny. Some people just need to be told.

I've never really thought about it (not that I'm inclined to jest about such matters) but I can see why it would wind some people up.

Out of interest where do people stand on people who are vocal about not wanting children?

I'm wondering if the same principles apply? Is it insensitive to voice this given that there are people put there who have struggled to conceive or carry?

I'm not against people who don't want children, I guess I don't know how to word this so long as they are equally not insensitive about people wanting children? Don't make comments about how easy it is etc etc

everybody choooses a different journey who are we to judge each other's?

I forgot it was April fools day, what a weird thing to joke about tho, not particularly funny no matter what. But you're right, They won't mean to be being insensitive I'm sure. N what Lala said chuckle vision, It doesn't offend me in the slightest/I don't feel it's insensitive to voice your (not yours specifically, but y'know just generally) opinion at all, each to their own, but like Lala said, same rule should apply back I think, like just because someone doesn't want them I don't think they should be blah about those that do...

cant say I've seen any joke that they're preggers on facebook tho, so odd.

Very strange april fool. Would never have occured to me something like this was a joke!

This post has hit a nerve as a good friend of mine lost her baby boy at 6 months pregnant last summer and just heard that husband's cousin and his wife lost their baby boy at birth last night. Terribly terribly sad. While nothing will bring these babies back joking about these things when emotions are raw is just cruel.

I think it's difficult to make a comparison cos if you are child free by choice, there is really no equivalent to the stuff like ultrasound pics and endless kid-related status updates. That's the stuff that people who have kids by choice post that has potential to upset those with difficulty TTC. Maybe if they were posting pics of their sterilised bits and harping on about how great their lives are without kids at every turn, that would be insensitive. And I'm sure there are people out there who do that...but I don't know any.

I just wondered because it crossed my mind that perhaps people who were TTC would perceive it as taking it for granted if theyve faced struggles. That is a really really inarticulate way of saying it but hopefully it makes sense without offending anyone!

I'm not sure I would see it like that as (don't take this the wrong way) if somebody has decided all of their life they won't have children they don't "know" if they have a problem or not so how can they be taking it for granted. If you know what I mean

I have a auntie she's amazing but decided early in life she didn't want a relationship didn't want kids etc and so has never been at that stage so all respect for her k mowing her own mind she's awesome with kids just didn't want her own.

It's a horribly cruel april fools day joke and gets to me every year. Fortunately my Facebook friends seem to be a good bunch and wouldn't post stuff like that... at least, not after I blew my top rather publicly 4 years ago in a hormone fuelled meltdown, post miscarriage. (It was a late on loss, and I was something of a wreck for a while. The person who posted it was a colleague of mine at the time, and had no idea her flippant joke would backfire so badly... I still feel guilty for losing my sh!t at her so much- in hindsight, a simple message explaining that it was hurtful would have worked so much better ?)

Chucklevision - I was thinking about that last weekend. I met up with a friend, call her V, who doesn't like and doesn't want children. I have no issue with her choice but she is incredibly vocal about it.

on my birthday my best friend popped into the restaurant with her new born to wish me a happy birthday and V screwed up her face when I took the baby and sat down next to her. She also said: 'ewww'. Luckily my best friend didn't hear that. But I was quite upset myself as they lost a baby before and I know they have been waiting for a while for it to happen.

this weekend I mentioned that we were moving to a house partly because we hoped to have children in the future and she said: 'I won't be coming over anymore.'

so far her comments never bothered me but the more pronounced my wish for children becomes the more upset I am by her vocal dislike of them...

So far I've ignored V but that might become difficult....

A friend posted something which came up on my newsfeed, almost like a 'warning' to those who would post a joke about being pregnant for april fools. I totally understood why she did that, as I hate people who joke about it. Because of my health problems I can't conceive naturally and cannot afford to pay for IVF. So these people that joke, or terminate 'just for the sake of it' really get on my nerves.

Im so sorry hun.

Makes me so cross, I know somebody who never had a days job in her life and the state paid for her IVF then theres people who work hard and theres no help, again ive never looked into it properly, but i doubt very much I would get any help either. This is just me looking in from the outside so might have my wires crossed here,

Yeah, that's not acceptable. I don't really like babies and just before Christmas there were two occasions in quick succession where members of staff brought their babies into the office, and all the women are supposed to get up and coo over it. I just kept my head down and pretended to be busy. I hope that the parents in question didn't think I was being rude, but for my own sanity that's what I need to do. Saying 'eww' is just, bizarre and mean.

ID - I agree not everyone has to coo over babies and saying nothing is perfectly fine.

I really love babies so i'm not really sure what to say to V, as she'll probably assume that i'm just having a dig at her.

I really don't have an issue with her choice/preference. I just have an issue with the way she talks about the result of other people's choices....

Id I would much prefer somebody to do what you did, there's a lady at work whose the same she would just prefer not to 'see' the baby as she cannot do fake. she will sign the card wish them well etc etc but won't be filling into the canteen for a cuddle when the baby 'visits' us and that's fine.

think I would accidently hit the rude lady with my baby bag haha

Oh halloweeny im sure your friends lovely n all, but thats just kinda rude. To me it doesnt matter what its about, be it babies, other peoples pets, their sense of style, whatever, in my opinion its just rude to be openly disgusted like that, im not mad keen on certain peoples dogs (im a bit allergic, and some of them that sit in my work room can really honk) but i smile, talk to them and get on with it, because I think its impolite not to be. If you dont like something thats totally fine, but when its something like that and the opinion hasnt actually been expressly asked for it should just be kept to yourself (or at least not in the earshot of the person its aimed at!) Or like you said ID, just dont say anything, thats not rude, thats just neutral! As the saying goes, if you dont have anything nice to say....

Wow, halloweeny, that's just weird. I like babies but not older kids (2+) but eww? Are you 12? And to say she doesn't want to come over once you have kids is really immature. I hope she changes her mind when babies come along for you, but if not you'll probably have to ditch her.

It's really weird isn't it? She's a perfectly lovely person aside from this one thing. Very caring and generous. I met and lived with her at uni so i've known her for a long time. i guess when we were younger the whole not liking babies thing wasn't an issue as nobody we knew had any, but now it's quite uncomfortable...

She's quite militant on FB about it too. If anyone posts a picture after they've just had a baby she'll follow up with an article about why she shouldn't be expected to coo over a baby. Nobody is expecting her to coo or come visit. We all know she doesn't like children. Most of our mutual friends are sensitive and there are no streams of constant baby pictures/scan pictures. It's just 'meet x, y, z who arrived safely' kind of posts.

I know those posts might be difficult for someone who cannot have children but that's seemingly not the case with her. She just doesn't like them and effectively doesn't want to know.

Mrs Shep - i totally get what you mean about 2 year +

I'm the same. I think i like it when they can't move around best. Less trouble!! haha!!!

I guess it will be difficult to sustain a friendship if she won't visit because of children. It would be sad not to be friends with her as we've got a long history so i'd try. Not sure i'd deal with it very well if she started 'ewwing' my babies though!

I like them best when they cant think for themselves I think! Haha.

It is weird, you can dislike kids without being rude about it! It's a pretty natural part of life (we wouldn't be here otherwise!) so I hope she mellows out a bit soon

Oh Halloweeney, that sucks and is so rude! i mean i'n not into kids and it is fairly obvious without needing to 'ewwww' but it's not ok to behave like that and judge for others wanting them then get your knickers in a twist about being judged for not wanting kids.

but I'm glad you get what i meant as I have had a friend who has struggled to conceive (her husband had a brain tumour and this affected his fertility) and i do worry that i may have offended her as though i don't think i want kids (although I have mellowed & been more open to it since my sister had kids) I like to think I'm honest about it rather than being vocal. Although I have to say my friends don't make pregnancy/motherhood sound particularly appealing at times.

would you ever consider challenging her on it? Or would she assume this is judgement about her decision & not hear you out?

Chucklevision - I have tried to gently point out she's being unreasonable but was told that I am defending people who expect a certain reaction from her (ie cooing). She knows I love babies so she just doesn't accept that what I'm saying might be valid. I'm not sure if I know anyone else who doesn't like children so I can't even point out someone who has the same viewpoint as her and doesn't cross the rude line.

All the friends I have who don't want children have never said its because they actively dislike them. The focus has been on their choice which I totally respect...

Thinking about it slightly is it possible your friend is unable to have children or not in a position to etc but she's feeling really broody in her own way so her way of not making herself feel worse about it is to separate herself from children I know ewww is extreme and insanely rude but is she telling herself that as much as anything so that she's convinced herself that she doesn't want one?

I wondered the same thing lala

That did occur to me too, but I wasn't sure if it was a bit of a reach. I think society doesn't like to acknowledge that there are some people who just plainly dislike children.

I sometimes say I don't like them but that's not always true - I can hold a baby, I know how to bottle feed and maybe even change a nappy (although I haven't done that for a long time). I find older kids exhausting and sometimes tedious, and I've never been able to envisage a situation in which I would want one of my own. But that's not quite dislike. As I've got older I have found myself *occasionally* finding them cute, and I like buying clothes for them. I love buying stuff for my niece, although it usually ends up in me having a feminist rant about how everything is pink and then buying her a t shirt from the boys' department

My husband can't stand kids (for example, you should hear him talk about the fact they should be on a lead in tesco) but I think a lot of that is A. Having 3 younger siblings (especially as they don't get on) and B. The fact that we have no children in our life so he has no exposure to them, i think if any friends or family had them it would help him.

I think that's you're right that with more exposure he might mellow.I used to be like that as I had no experience of young kids except when they were annoying me in tescos etc, but since I've become an aunt I have mellowed and further since my friends have started procreating. I still won't hold a newborn baby (I'm afraid of giving them a jack in the box neck) or coo but I am better. I am far far far more tolerant/ loving of my nephews & god daughter than other kids though, I can take or leave most of my OH's nieces and nephews as i guess I just don't feel a 'connection' to them.