Can I please get your opinions on the behaviour of my friends boss?

Ok, fine, we're not going to agree. I don't think it was really necessary to get sarcastic with me.

I think people are focussing on the friend being a bit scared of driving in the snow and forgetting that she did in fact leave the house and try to drive to work. The OP says:

yesterday she tried to get to work but couldn't get out of the village

If she called her boss and advised him of this and he didn't suggest she keep and eye on the situation and get in when/if she can then I don't think it's unreasonable of her to just stay home.

If he wasn't explicit in this instructions then I think he was utterly unreasonable in spying on her. However if the phone calls and texts were asking whether conditions had improved enough for her to drive in, she kept saying no and the boss had his suspicions that this wasn't the case, then I think he was perfectly justified. In the latter scenario, being a bit scared of driving in the snow but road conditions allowing you to is a daft excuse for not getting to work.

x

Come off it. There are some valid cases of people not being able to get to work in all this. Yes, we can all moan about those who take the piss but for some people it has been impossible, not least because of the complete lack of foresight on behalf of councils who did not grit roads and hterefore could not run public transport.

But that's my point. Did she make a reasonable attempt to do her job? Did she look into walking, public transport, taxi, lift, seeing if she could work from home? There's nothing in the OP that sugests she did and TBH i would consider such things the bare minimum in terms of making a reasonable effort

Was she - like you and many others - really left with no way of getting there? The fact that her boss could drive to her house in the afternoon suggests that the roads were passable for at least some of the day. Which again suggests that while she may not have felt comfortable driving (fair enough!) that one of the above options would probably have worked.

And your manager couldn't have come to see if you were talling the truth, becasue there would have been no way of him/her getting there.

Sorry Nick I missed this. Yes, it is subjective, and in your second example I'd have no trouble at all disciplining that person - a slightly picky point, and I know not what you are getting at, but if someone rang me and said they'd broken their leg and would be off for x weeks then they'd have to send me a sicknote after the first week in any event. Other than that, I HAVE to believe them; if I see them dancing on a table then it becomes a different issue and yes I'd fire them!

I don't think we really have enough information about the original situation, about whether she asked for or was granted any sort of holiday/unpaid/emergency leave or whatever. Granted it sounds like she didn't, I'll give it that.

Absolutely. No argument from me there. And I'm not and never have been talking about people who genuinely couldn't get into work. But for me someone who is scared to drive in snow that is passable and hasn't looked into other ways of getting to work or getting the work to her (if that is what happened) is one of the ones taking the piss. Though maybe I'm baised because like Nick J I'm in a part of the country where there was a minor covering of snow yesterday morning which was certainly passable and melted throughout the day, and no snow at all today - no a flake - and still businesses/services are shut because people aren't turning up to work "because of the snow"

I can't believe people think it's normal for a boss to drive to your house to see if you're telling the truth. Quite apart from the total fucking weirdness of it, does he not have anything better to do with his time?? He sounds like he's got issues.

I love the way people are deciding (making up??) all the extra facts to suit their point of view. There is no specific law about driving past an employees house but the behaviour set out in the original post could contribute to a breach of the implied term of trust and confidence in certain circumstances. Depending on the seniority of the particular manager and whether he had consulted with the appropriate people in the company I think his actions were probably unwise.

Me too btw - see my earlier rant about nurseries ?

I think as everyone else said it depends on a lot of things - firstly what he originally said to her when she rang in (did he expect her to reassess), secondly how much things changed from morning to when he was there and thirdly whether he was actually outside her house or just outside the village etc etc etc. If she has no history of absenteeism/taking the piss then it's a pretty heavy handed approach.

I don't think it's unreasonable to check on someone in theory, but the procedure around how that is done is important.

You're right - there just isn't enough information. and on that note I'm going to bed as I have to get up at 5am to battle with the trains yet again.

I agree and tBH I don't think it's the best evidence he could ahve got to try to prove she could have found a way of coming into work. But I can see what he was probably trying to do - to assess whether he felt she was taking the piss or not. While his method has huge gaping holes in it if he did try to use it as evidence, becasue of the issues to do with timing, I do think he has a right to try to get that evidence if he felt it was warranted. I also think the talk about it being harrassment i(not from you) s a bit OTT. He drove past her house once on a public road. For all anyone knows he may have had a perfectly valid other reason for being there. If he drove past her house daily with no other reason then I can see the problem. If he knocked on her door and ranted at her again I could see the problem. But because he once drove down the public road she happened to live on? Maybe he's having an affair with one of her neighbours and is there every afternoon but she doesn't see him because she's at work

I don't think the harassment was the driving so much as the calls/texts and nature of them.

News programmes like South Today aren't really helping though

"Wiltshire police say under no circumstances should anyone attempt to drive on the counties roads."

Bit more detail wouldn't really go amiss would it?

Though as you said before I think that depends on what was said in the initial phone call. If she said "I won't be in all day please can I take it as annual leave/unpaid" then he shouldn't be texting her. If she just said "I can't get in because of the snow" then I think it's fair enough for him to keep seeing whether the situation had changed.

And conversely, I live in an area of the country which has been quite badly affected (Birmingham) but thanks to the unilateral decision to close all schools today, traffic was extremely light and the gritters had managed to get out and cover the roads. So having been concerned both Sunday and Monday night I got to work on Monday and today with no difficulty. I did investigate the possibility of walking this morning, and would probably have done that if I'd been on a full day and the roads had been bad but as it happened the roads were fine and I was on a half day, so if they hadn't been fine it would have taken me nearly as long to walk (and dry out the other end!) as I would have been at work for. My boss said she would have been happy for me to take a full day's annual leave in that case, but my work is non-essential and my employers pretty flexible.

I say hip hip hooray to BGfL because their decision meant I and most of the others in my building (excepting those who have children presumably) made it to work. I acknowledge I'd probably feel differently if I was the personal owner of one of the aforementioned children ?. I know the Birmingham decision was probably heavily influenced by the Highways agency following the debacle 4 years ago, but perhaps Lancashire were operating under similar instructions and had expected the snow to be worse?

Pmsl at 'the state of the roads' in leeds. sorry, i was working last night and the night before, and we were practically beating the council gritter blokes within an inch of their lives to work all night gritting the roads. i went home at 645 this morning (and on monday am too) before most of the traffic cleared the snow and the roads were fine, just a bit slushy.

ok, her village may have been a bit snowy, but it wasn't icy and the main roads were fine. and she could have just said she didn't want to get stuck in traffic queues but she'd go in late.

and i don't see why the boss driving past her house was such an issue either. when i skived off work for an interview once, i positively expected this to happen. ?

I think checking up on an employee for one day's absence is OTT. How many of us put in unpaid overtime every month that adds up to hundreds of hours over a career?

Obviously if there is a history of not turning up an the flimsiest excuse then that's different.

I got into work after an hour and half drive and when I got there I had a call from my manager telling me to go home because it was likely to get worse in the afternoon and she didn't want me stuck there.

I remember some years ago (Hovis music playing in the background) when we had a similar amount of snow and I didn't have a car. I got a lift from a neighbour to the station (had to push the car out at the top of the road when it got stuck) and then found all the trains were cancelled.

Another colleague lived near the station so I walked round to his house and got in the car with him and his very pregnant wife. We set off from there, but got stuck on a roundabout at the bottom of a very steep hill. Cars were trying to go up but were skidding all over the road. Pregnant wife and I pushed the car when it got stuck on the roundabout and then we headed back home!

He dropped me off near to home and I skidded back down the hill, arriving indoors nearly 3 hours after setting off! I rang the office and my boss was really sarcastic about me not being there. ☹️ I wish she'd come round to take a look and got stuck herself!!

I think the lazy cow should be fired. No wonder her boss checked up on her. You should all take a leaf out of Lili DOnkeys book and get to work no matter what.

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I think the lazy cow should be fired. No wonder her boss checked up on her. You should all take a leaf out of Lili DOnkeys book and get to work no matter what.

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I would have thought it would be obvious that she should keep an eye on the situation and wouldn't need specific instructions. If she's adult enough to make the decision not to go in then surely she's adult enough not to need such instructions. My own workplace told people to work from home yesterday if it was bad enough. Nobody was given any instructions to re-evaluate the situation but about 90% of those who couldn't make it in got in by the end of lunch as we had quite a sunny morning.

As others have said I think a lot depends on what she arranged with her boss when she first called him in the morning. I didn't go into work yesterday as I couldn't get my car out of our lane - by the afternoon the snow had started to thaw and I could have made the journey, but I had already arranged with my manager that I take the day as flexi and work an extra day next week (as I am part time). Luckily my job is pretty self contained and no-one is reliant on me being there.

If on the other hand I was expecting to take the day as emergency paid absence (which didn't even occur to me but I am sure there are plenty from my company who have for yesterday!) I would have made every effort to get in later in the day or ask for work to be emailed to me at home.

I must admit I'd be a bit concerned about my boss driving past my house to check up on me but again, who is to say he wasn't in the area for other reasons?

<Hitched sin first and last page read only>

It usually takes 20 mins but took over an hour? Big deal!

Would rather not have a scared driver on the roads... but if that was the main issue, can't blame her boss for thinking she's taking p if roads were OK for a confident driver. I do think driving by is a bit much - was he passing? - but not the texting. If she was getting paid especially, her time was her boss' - he can text for updates all he wants!

thats not strictly true. though the number of times and type could be subject to scrutiny in the event of a complaint. subjective though it is, IF he kept on sending text after text after text, it may become an issue of bullying/harrassment.

I thought you had to have a sick note for all lenghty absences off work so the issue of a broken leg wouldn't raise itself as it would have to be certified by a doctor? I may be wrong here - just my mother had an operation on her shoulder before Christmas and is still off work but is still under a sick note and will continue to be until she returns?

I thought you could self-cert up to a week then it had to be an official note?

Lumpy, that sounds like an absolutely magical experience for those children. We get snow in scotland a couple of times a year (and about every second year we get it worse than the 'avalanches' which hit london and still we manage to keep schools and businesses open and trains running- no idea why that is). Like evy, I LOVED my days in school in the snow, and my 15 min walk to school was more like a 45 min walk as we stopped to play with every fresh bit of virgin snow we encountered. Aaaah, happy days. ?

Anyway, back ontopic. Unless it was agreed that the employee was going to take the day as unpaid leave (in which case it was 'their day' to do as they please), then I don't understand why the texting and calling could be construed as harassment. You're on business time and should be providing your employer with regular updates, trying to get into work as you are able and, to the extent that this is impossible, trying to do whatever work you possibly can from home. It's not like she was ill or on compassionate leave, and should therefore be left in peace. There is no set formula for how close we all live to our places of work or what modes of transport are required to get us there/ other responsibilities surrounding child and pet care, therefore you can't expect there to be a single answer to fit all situations. Each case should be decided on its merits, and therefore unless you have 100% faith in your workforce, I think it's perfectly acceptable to do a mini-audit of the absences over the last few days, given the wholesale cost to the economy of the shutdown. I think it's entirely acceptable to stay at home if it's dangerous or virtually impossible to travel, but i also think it's acceptable for an employer to want you to demonstrate that this was in fact the case. Lastly, I believe that if you choose to live far away from work or in area thatcan be impassable in poor weather, then your employer should not have to meet the full cost of lost working time.

As for the OP's friend- she may have an unblemished attendance record and think that she is held in high regard, but the actions of her employer (asssuming he's a broadly reasonable chap) do not bear this out. Whilst I think his actions were a little foolish, if I thought an employee was 'at it' I'd be mightily tempted to check out the situation for myself too (the reality, of course, being that I wouldn't have the time or the inclination to actually go through with it- but i would be enqurigin of people I know hwo stay closeby to ascertain whetehr she was genuinely snowed in all day). . On the other hand, if she genuinely is a trustworthy non-sciver, then her boss's behaviour is very odd and I think if I was her my first reaction would be to feel hurt and I would want to know why my updates had not been believed.

I agree really, based on what I would do. But we don't know what was or wasn['t said in the initial phone call. For all we know he just said "See you tomorrow". What I meant was that based on the OP, there is no clear company policy. If he thinks she's a skiver then surely it's sensible for him to be explicit in his expectations, certainly if he's going to justify driving out to her house to check up on her.

Either way, this has been a typical Hitched ambiguous OP who disappears without clarifying anything and leaving us all chasing each others tails. ?

x

Those who are saying she could have got a taxi - in my area (Surrey) none of the taxi's were doing pick ups as it was too dangerous, and none of the buses were in action intil yesterday afternoon.

I was meant to be working in London on Monday - I was in my car at 7am, took 45 mins to do a 10 min journey only to find out that there were no trains. Surrey was a nightmare, none of the roads were gritted, no prep at all. My little estate is still a death trap and I don't blame people for staying at home on Monday and Tuesday.

The bosses behaviour is odd and i think you don't know the whole story.

i couldn't get off my drive on monday morning so agreed to work at home and catch the train in later. Luckily my MIL was available to have Eleanor whilst i did this. There was no way i could have got to the childminder.

Yesterday wasn't great and i did go out and drive because i had to Eleanor was quite poorly so had to go to hospital but i toyed with phoning an ambulance. In someways i probably should have done. The main roads were fine it's getting onto them that's hard work.

so what am i doing to compensate working from home and Mr S is staying home to eleanor sit tomorrow to make sure i actually go to work.

I have 2 more tasks to do today then i'll do some more on friday - days i don't normally work.

As a manager i wouldn't drive past someones house to check up on them which makes me think there's more to this than you are being told.