Can we talk about trust?

Lovely, you know what you need to do, but for some reason there is something stopping you. For a bright girl you don't half need a kick in the hole sometimes.

Do you still have the number of that woman counsellor? Call her. Call her now. You are totally going to fuck things up if you don't, and I say that with love. ?

SLD - it's bl00dy hard, I'm sure but I think counselling could help you get those mechanisms.

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I could have written the same thing myself ?

I know exactly how you are feeling & what you are doing. It sucks doesn't it.

Please speak to someone soon. I am, which no-one knows about in real life, she is helping me loads. It doesn't stop me from having mental moments every now and again, but it is helping me think before I react, and constantly getting the wrong end of the stick.

Please be brave and do it, you won't regret it ?

I know you do Hole, thank you lovely - I've said on gmail that I'm going to give the doctor a ring and see if I can get a referral. In current climes I can't afford that woman, so it'll have to be the NHS route.

Thanks Zebra, I really hope so.

I was really wondering if there was anything to do in the meantime too as counselling is a long process and I'd really like to be able to make a start on my own too, if that makes sense?

I don't really know what to suggest, but this sounds worryingly like my mid-1990s ex - who was so obsessed with the idea that I might be seeing someone else that she pre-emptively accused me either directly or by innuendo pretty much every chance she got.

And we had lots of conversations about the trust issue - my position was "I've never cheated on you or lied to you, so why don't you just assume this is the case unless you get hard evidence that says otherwise?", and she'd reply "you're not asking for trust but blind faith", and never deviated from that position, even though I tried to counter it by pointing out that I could just as easily accuse her of cheating on me, but I never had.

I tried to be as understanding as possible, because I know she'd had issues with a (presumably genuine) cheating partner before - but if you visit the sins of the predecessor on the successor, that's a recipe for disaster right from the off. (And in this case, we did split up over it).

Personally, I think the simple answer is: you trust someone unless they prove that you're not worthy of their trust. Because while I can understand the psychological attractions of launching a pre-emptive strike, it still really rankles that an otherwise terrific relationship broke up over something that wasn't actually happening - so all the rows and arguments were totally unnecessary. And false accusations are incredibly hard to deal with anyway, because of the difficulty of proving a negative.

SLD, I think talking with someone would help you. You have been through alot ?.

You sound like me 10 years ago. I managed to conquer my insecurity by a mixture of counselling and hypnotherapy. The counselling was excellent at helping me understand WHY I was so insecure and it wasn't just because of previous partners behaviour, although this was a contributing factor and the subsuquent hypnotherapy sessions helped me change my behavioural patterns that were so destructive.

At the time I was on the brink of ruining a really good relationship and after recovering we got engaged and are now married. Do get the help you deserve.

Thanks Sparks and thanks for sharing that too, I really appreciate it. It does suck, totally, and I am so angry that something that made me so unhappy can still be affecting me IYSWIM? I'm definitely goig to call the doctor, I know all of the logic, but I'm just totally pushing him away and it's the last thing that I want. Also I'm angry - I've never, ever been an angry person so I don't know why I am now, it's horrid. ?

SLD - everything you have said is so familiar to me. When I met MrK I had trust issues - for the first few months everything was great, I was caught up in the excitement of a new relationship, but then gradually, as things settled, I found myself doing the "I was right all along" thing when actually, I'd forced it to happen. MrK never gave me any reason not to trust him but I began to think everything he said was a lie so I'd read his emails, check his phone - just to catch him out. I never caught him out on anything - there was nothing to catch out.

We nearly split up a few times but I'd somehow manage to claw myself back into his good books - the man has the patience of a saint - but 6 months after we were married it came to a head and he broke down and told me he couldn't go on, I was exhausting him, I had no reason not to trust him and the way I was acting was making him question his feelings for me. We had a frank talk where I admitted that I had some issues that needed sorting and to be honest, I'd exhausted myself. So he took the bulls by the horn and contacted a life coach. It was so hard having to talk so openly to a stranger, and in front of MrK about everything but within 3-4 months I was feeling so much better, I completely trusted MrK and within a year I felt like a totally different person. I now only see the life coach once every few months and often talk about work rather than our relationship. MrK and I are happier than ever and I know without the life coach making me put everything into perspective, our marriage wouldn't have lasted.

Sorry, bit long winded and "me me me" but I think I'm trying to say - counselling/life coach/whatever you want to call it is worth it. PM me if you want SLD ?

Sorry I have to take issue with this - I do not spend my life telling my OH that I suspect him of cheating. That's not fair - I have never done that and never would. I haven't falsely accused him of anything. I don't think that he cheats or necessarily would do. I know that he isn't my ex husband.

I'm not saying I am an angel and currently I am not at all easy to live with because the trust issue impacts in other ways - it's more that I don't trust the relationship to suceed, I don't trust in the future and I don't trust my own ability to sustain it. Do you see what I mean?

I would love to just 'trust' someone unless they prove unworthy - but it really is not as simple as that. It's not a simple logical manouevre.

I totally agree that to break up over something that isn't actually happening (in my case a fear of it all failing and so pushing it so that it does) is bloody awful.

Sorry, I just had to say that. I don't want to be lumped with people who constantly accuse their other half of cheating, I am at least fair in that respect.

Thanks Kazmerelda - you make me feel like I have the licence to say "I've been through a lot". I haven't been able to say that properly before. I've felt like a fraud because plenty of people have problems far worse than my own IYSWIM? Thank you, it's a relief.

KTc, that's exactly it, I think it's only because I am on the brink that I can say all of this - counselling and hypnotherapy sound like the right way to go. I really do need to fix my behaviour before it's too late. I'm really glad that things turned out so well for you.

What mr jk said.

the other thing i d add which may be relevant or not depending on the specifics of whats going on - i have a friend who had a girlfriend who just didnt trust him. she had no reason not to, he loved her to bits and had never done anything to make her doubt him. she kept on being suspicious if he was late back from work, if he had to take a trip, a boys night out, you name it. it got so bad that he once said to me "she keeps accusing me of having an affair, and i m at the point where if i do meet someone else, i ll probably go for it and see what happens". in the end thats what happened. he met someone else and left the girlfriend. before that happened, he was so upset that she didnt trust him, he couldnt get his head round why she felt like that. they d talked to death about it, but it never improved, and ultimately the relationship ended.

you can definitely say "i ve been through a lot" and thats cool, but remember, these are YOUR issues, not his, and whilst its great to be able to talk about things that have happened previously, you should not use that line as a reason for your behaviour, or for him to understand it fully. it is your issue to deal with, not his, he should not have to "accomodate" your issue.

Thank you Kekepania, I really appreciate you saying that, wow, thank you so much.

It's so true about the excitement of a new relationship - you're spot on, it was just great in the beginning, almost too good really. Then all the bad stuff just started seeping in and I know it's of my own creation.

By the way when I responded to Mr JK saying I didn't want to be lumped with people who constantly accuse their OH of cheating, I really, truly hope that I didn't offend you. I just wanted to make it clear because that's the one (and possibly only!) thing that I am good at controlling. I am really aware that SB isn't my exhusband and I work hard never to accuse him of that particular thing. Although ironically I still punish him because of it, clearly, but in other ways. As I say, I didn't meant to be offensive, I just wanted to make that point clear because it's the bit that I suceed at!

I'm so glad that it worked for you and that things are great for you now, you sound so happy and rightly deserved. You must have worked so hard (I too am terrified about telling a stranger about all of this and no amount of "they've heard it all before" is going to change that for me!) You weren't long-winded or me, me, me at all - it was extremely kind of you to share that with me - I really do need to know that it can be overcome. Thank you ??

Pleased to be helpful. It was really interesting experience actually. Many of my issues stemmed from childhood and not my disasterous relationships as I expected. One of the changes I had to make though was deciding not to drink as my counsellor pointed out that insecure people, and I think that I am still in that group, definitely sensitive anyway, shouldn't get drunk as this brings out negative character traits.

The hypno really worked. Go for it I say. And be happy that you're doing it. I felt empowered knowing I was doing something for myself after all the years of trying to help others.

It's anger over what that excuse for a human being did to you to make you have trust issues, if that makes sense? Because of what HE did to you, it is making you potentially spoil probably the best thing that has happened to you. You love SB very much, and you want to be carefree and happy with him, but because of what happened in your old life, it is preventing you from moving on. And that is making you angry.

I totally get that your trust isn't to do with him cheating on you, it's trust that the relationship is going to fail. You don't see the point in continuing the relationship as it's only going to fail anyway.....

I have had to change so much, well, change maybe isn't the right word - chill out is definitely! I am always looking for hints and signs that he is going off me. Constantly thinking that this time next week I will be back on-line dating ? I have booked us a weekend away to Amsterdam in March - that's 6 weeks away!!!! That is a sure sign I am starting to relax. I never used to plan next week, let alone 6 weeks ?

Your doctor will be able to refer you to someone. Talking about it will help.

Good luck lovely - you deserve to be happy with someone wonderful ?

Although I hate to admit it, Nick is right (not that I don't want to agree with Nick, but that my friends have said the same to me and I didn't want to agree with them lol). It IS your problem, and not SBs problem. Like my trust issue is MY problem , and not my boyfriends. He is totally innocent and does nothing to make me not trust him, or us. It's me that is the loon ?

Not saying you are a loon by the way. Well, I know you are, but in a good way, not in a nutter way ?

SLD - following on from your reply to MrJK (I have no idea how to quote) - I never actually accused MrK of cheating - just lying to me. I needed a reason, any reason, to qualify my own thought process of "the relationship will not work".

I'm trying to think of how to explain how I've managed to now trust MrK, trust myself and trust the relationship - it's hard to find the right words though - it took time and a lot of patience from both myself and MrK. For a start, I stopped accusing him of lying. Sometimes he could tell I wasn't sure so he'd make the move in reassuring me - that helped a lot. Trusting the relationship kind of followed on from there - I managed to be honest with him about how I was feeling which was a good start, I took each day as they came and I talked more about what I wanted in the future and when I knew MrK wanted the same, or when he didn't we talked about how to go forward with that, I felt much more stable.

I know I'm not making much sense - argh. I really want to say something that will help SLD - I'm just finding the right words hard to come by at the moment.

SLD - only just seen your reply to me - stupid hitched is still slow for me! - you didn't offend me at all - I knew it came across like I accused him of cheating but it was more the "You're lying" that I used to accuse him of. I think he may have found it easier to convince me otherwise if I'd said "you're cheating". I was lied to by my family a lot, about all different things, and in fact they broke down my trust rather than any of my exes.

My life coach is a man but once I started talking I didn't stop. I cried a lot and I talked about things I didn't want to talk about but it helped to release it all.

Argh I just typed a massive reply and bloody Hitched lost it.

Mrs Jess - sorry I forgot to say thank you on my earlier post, thank you very much.

Nick - thank you too. I totally agree - they absolutely are my issues and not his to deal with in any way. I've almost broken up with him so many times before because I've felt that he deserves so much better and it's unfair on him. In fact the last time I nearly did that my friends pointed out that he is an adult and that if he wanted to walk away he would do, although it still made me feel guilty because he cared enough to persevere. I really need to get this sorted out now, and I think I need help to do it, because I'm treating him badly and making the pair of us miserable. I push and push and push (not always in obvious ways) because somewhere in my illogical brain I *know* we're going to break up anyway. I don't trust the relationship, rather than the man, if that makes sense?

Mr JK - I appreciate that you didn't say so directly but I thought that your use of "sounds worryingly like" meant that you thought that was how I was behaving. I'm sorry if that wasn't the case, but it did seem as if that was the crux of what you were saying. It was important to me to point out that it is something that I don't do - as I said to KTc, it's the one thing that I have the brakes on, IYSWIM? I agreed with your other comments absolutely, but I had to make that distinction. I'm not excusing myself from other types of bad behaviour

Sparkley - THAT'S IT: totally get that your trust isn't to do with him cheating on you, it's trust that the relationship is going to fail. You don't see the point in continuing the relationship as it's only going to fail anyway.....

That is totally how I feel and had totally summed it up in a nutshell. It's speeding up the process towards the inevitable conclusion.

Actually, the whole cheating thing is a red herring - it's the lack of trust that was the issue, which is why I brought up the subject here.

And what was particularly destructive wasn't so much the false accusations as the fact that in order to reach that situation she would have to assume the worst possible interpretation of anything I'd said or done. And that's why the relationship collapsed - because when it became clear that she was instinctively adopting that mindset, there was literally nothing I could do. At some points, even being nice to her was interpreted as me trying to hide something - it really got that bad.

It's exactly the same situation as dealing with any kind of chemical addiction - the person in question has to admit that they have a problem before there's the slightest chance that the situation can be improved. Which is why this thread is a lot more optimistic, because SLD does seem to have reached that stage.

(Incidentally, NickJ, I actually tried the "well, since you're so convinced I'm having an affair I might as well reap the benefits and actually have one" argument. It didn't help - to put it mildly - and neither did I actually have one, but I was quite literally trying out all possible arguments just to see if any of them worked!)

thats the issue, right there. self esteem i d say rather than trust as such, as a layman anyway.

i d suggest psychotherapy tbh - take a look at www.bps.org.uk and do a search - look for "general adult". do not go for somene who is a "counsellor" - sadly thats a really woolly term, and can be applied to anyone who is fully qualified, or just a do-gooder whose been on a weekend course. look for a chartered psychologist from the site above. have a chat with them, i m sure it ll help. and if you dont have the cash for that, find it, you ll wait forever on the nhs - this is your potential future happiness we re talking about, and its not something to scrimp on (in my opinion)

Sparks you're spot on with the anger too - and it's also anger at myself for not being able to deal with this. I have a fear of failure and I wonder how much that has impacted on all of this too - to have had such a public, humiliating failure is almost one of the worst things that I could imagine - and then it happened.

I totally do need to chill out too - I take things so seriously. I am unravelling this relationship thread by thread and it's awful - poor, poor SB. Something little becomes something big because I pick at the seams and make it fray - everything seems to take on an extra serious dimension which is stupid. Yet despite being aware that it is stupid, I still do it - why?

By the way, I'm so glad for you - you sound so happy and you absolutely deserve it. ??

KTc it's really helpful, thank you. I suspect I also have some childhood issues - child of divorced parents (well before anyone knew anything about dealing with it too - for the first three years of it I was the only person I knew who had divorced parents - seems laughable now). Plus my sister is bipolar so there have been plenty of problems there too. I hope the NHS pays counsellors good money.... [wry smile]

Keke thanks for understanding what I meant and sorry for miscontruing you, this whole thread is emotive for me and I think I might not be reading some things properly because of that. I totally get what you mean about not trusting that he is not lying - I guess I have a similar thing whereby I am convinced that I like SB more than he likes me and that when he says something about liking me I find it easier to disbelieve him than believe him. I wouldn't necessarily say that to him, more likely to just think it and hence add to my negative viewpoint of the relationship.

Mr JK - I did agree with the other points, it's totally true that my assumptions are destroying the relationship and are baseless. It's going to implode unless I change my attitude and resulting behaviour. It was just important for me to make that distinction re. cheating, maybe it wasn't necessary for me to do so but it felt like what I wanted to say. My sister has had plenty of chemical addictions, it's a path I am all too sadly familiar with. I think I have recognised the problem for a while now, it's more that I thought I could heal myself without the need for intervention, if that makes sense? I'm crap at asking for help - which is another weakness.

Nick - thank you, that's really helpful. I will have a look on there and see what I can find. You're right about future happiness, I really do not want to scrimp on it, but equally I have to eat! I will see if I can find a middle way - I take on board your point about counselling versus psychotherapy. I will try the NHS route too, even if I do it in parallel with something else, as my PCT is quite well-known for mental health care. Good I feel like a fruit cake having just written those last three words, it's not easy admitting that there's something wrong with you is it? Fark.

Thanks all, for sharing stuff and giving advice, it is very much appreciated. I've just got a text from SB:

How are you feeling? x

He's really so very lovely, I've been such a chump.

Again, I agree with Nick. I saw a 'councillor' when I first broke up with my H and it was rubbish. I found it no help & very, very frustrating.

I went to the www.bps.org.uk website to get help for my fear of spiders (it's actually a major, major phobia I have) found someone who lived very close to me, who specialised in phobias and relationship issues.

She has helped me so much, she sets me tasks to do, and actually helps me, rather than a councillor who just listens and offers you tissues ? Not so convinced on the spider front, but I will cross that bridge when I get to it ?

Thanks lovely ?

You have mail.

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In my opinion, trust issues usually stem from another negative emotion i.e fear or guilt and anger is a cover up for fear or sadness. From what you have said and without knowing anything about your past it would appear that you have fear and sadness issues. If you can find a way to take the negative aspect of these emotions away you will be left with a healthy reaction which would normally be your intuition telling you something is astray. if you want a quick fix you might want to look into Timeline Therapy - a 5/10 minute process can have life changing effects.

Thanks Platty - as do you ??

Thanks Kali - I think that you are right. Having read back over this thread and written down what I am going to say to SB tonight, I think I am thinking with more clarity than before. You're right I do have fear problems - I think they are twofold, firstly I am afraid of failure. My divorce from my husband (who cheated) was the most public, humilating failure I have ever had to experience. It literally was like one of my worst nightmares come true. I also am afraid of being abandoned... that makes me sound about seven years old, but it's true. I think that's because of my parent's divorce and my dad moving to not one, but two different countries in the years afterwards. Months would go by when I wouldn't see him and when I would it wasn't exactly quality time. I've had a few wobbly moments over the years when I've been afraid of people leaving me - usually when family members have died.

There's definitely sadness there, for sure. I don't know how to put that into words though really.

I'll have a look at the Timeline thing too ?

Hey SLD, not been in the office today so am guessing i have missed some emails, but you pretty much know my thoughts on this anyway as you summed up in your OP what i hinted at last week.

Making the call is a good step mate, i hope you do it this time, but also, and in know this is a terrible cliche, but time really does help.

My trust issues are slightly different but i had the "wil it work? it might not so what's the point in trying, and i should just get it over with so i am in control" type wobbles, and with time, they do subside. But, i also spoke to someone which did help a lot.

oh, and i agree with Holio ?

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If you can email me a fixed number (I have free calls to the UK) maybe I can help you over the telephone. It's usually done face to face so I can't guarantee results but if your willing I'll give it a go - you've nothing to lose.