FAO Footlong- AJ you wont like this so proceed with caution.

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I love this! I got into a debate about gay marriage and the church on another forum, so think I may need to steal this!

Mini - I've heard it's an urban legend that it happened but that doesn't matter, it's a genius pulling apart of OT rules.

It probably is but I like to imagine her face as she opened it if *did* happen.

Excellent work Mini!

If you cross-ref with the list I made for AJ earlier, you may have a clue as to what I used for my prompts......

That has made my evening ?

Excellt. I've seen this before, it's very like Bartlett's rant in The West Wing ?

I love this!Thanks guys.

I'm going to add this to my FB!

ETA - might wait until after the weekend (got the JW Stepdaughter staying)

Perhaps if you check out AJ's use of OT laws to guide his life today, you might get how some people see it as relevant? See the Pumpkins thread, where a verse from Exodus is used to validate a Christian objection to Halloween...

This is brillo pads, even if it is an urban legend!

Amazing! My OH will love this!

Except for the fact it is in Leviticus that it is said that being Gay is an abomination. If they want to use that part as a moral guidance, why not the rest of the books in the old testament? Surely you can't just pick and choose?

I heard a good one the other day:

If Eve was made from Adam' rib, she must have had the same chromosomes, therefore 'she' had an X and a Y sex chromosome and 'she' must have been a he, therefore they were a same sex couple.

Oh, to put that on a placard and march through the southern states...wearing a bullet-proof vest o'course...

Does the the New Testament ban homosexuality as well then?

This is a problem surely..? How do you know you are doing it right?

So, if Christians base their guide to life on what the NT and Jesus taught, why is there a section of Christianity that hates homosexuality because it's against god's laws (where they MUST be referring to OT laws).

I used to go to church and bible study (for young people), we were explicitly told that homosexuality was wrong. The phrase was, "God made Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve" (though even this not very funny joke refers to OT). This was the Anglican church. Most of the Christians I know are against it, saying it says in the Bible that it is wrong.

I am fully aware that most Christians ignore OT and see the NT as the update, but the OT does seem to be used at certain times. Such as when Christians say that women are inferior as they were created from Adam's rib, or that she caused the fall of man. I have heard practicing, seemingly mild mannered Christians say this!

Out of interest, where does it say (if anywhere) that there should not be any female priests? Also, where does it say (if anywhere) that women should obey their husbands?

I did go to Bible study but I hated it so blocked most of it out!

1 Timothy 2:12.:

I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man;[a] she must be quiet.

Above is from the NIV.

Credit where credit's due, at least this is NT. Although clearly part of the misogynistic OT god carried over.

I'm afraid my in-depth knowledge of Christianity is lacking but I have never directly encountered the view that homosexuality is wrong, nor is it my belief.

I'm not suggesting that the wider 'Church' doesn't have this view but my church doesn't.

(Actually, there may be some of the older parishioners who do think it's wrong but then I know other older people without a faith who also believe that. Whilst not right, I'd suggest it was more generational than religious).

Firstly, nobody is ridiculing Christianity. We are asking "why one rule and not the other"? Secondly, there is nothing particularly terrible about Christianity when compared to other religions. I would be happy to discuss any of them. However, we are on an English website where the predominant religion of members (where they adhere to one) is going to be Christianity. In addition, as I mentioned earlier, this thread is something of an offshoot from the Pumpkins thread, where it was very explicitly a discussion about why Christians might object to Halloween.

Something that might be of interest for looking up quotes on various subjects.

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

Ok, I have been lurking and reading and have a question...

If homosexuality is considered wrong then why did we have the news article a few months back when the church was considering allowing gay marriages??

I had this conversation with my cousin recently. She & her H are very religious. She mentioned that their gay friend, also a Christian, will never act on his feelings or enter into a relationship as it's against God's teachings. I find that so incredibly sad.

That is so sad. He will spend the rest of his life miserable.

I think the two are correlated. In today's society (in the UK at least), the younger generation are way more skeptical of religion (if the stats are to be believed) than their parents, who are more skeptical than their own parents and so on. Older generations are more likely exposed to a more strongly religious culture than those who follow them. So even if not themselves religious, the prevailing culture was religious in nature.

St Paul, who wrote a lot of the Letters in the New Testament, didn't like women much.

"Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything." (Ephesians 5:22-24)

This is one of the commonly-used arguments for why women should not be priests: "As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church." (1 Corinthians 14: 33-35)

Hence why on a few topics I am fiercely anti religion. No one should have to hide their true self for the sake of a ~1500 year old book (roughly guestimating the average age of the edits and dates of writing of all books etc).

... I think this says it all really...

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This is the sort of thing which led me to have real problems with the Christian Union at university, and with evangelical Christians now. My friend had the "Wives, submit to your husbands" reading at her wedding, followed by a sermon about how wonderful it was that she had promised to obey her new husband etc. I found this very awkward. And yet, if you go to the previous chapter of Corinthians before the one I quoted, you have the beautiful and very famous passage about "If I speak in the tongue of men and of angels but have not love, I am a resounding gong or clanging cymbal...Love is patient, love is kind..." which we had at our wedding.

I am a Christian, but I'm also a scientist and can't accept anything uncritically, so I have had to think a lot about what my beliefs actually are and why they are that way. I'm sure plenty of people would say that I can't be a "true" Christian if I don't believe in Creation or don't think that all of St Paul's letters are the literal Word of God, but deep down there is a part of me that knows I believe, and thinks that what Jesus did is so amazing I can't possibly ignore it.