Food ponderings

Zeb, you're right of course. I think I was (incorrectly) using "allergy" to cover a real response to a foodstuff (from anaphylaxis through to hives and stomach cramps) and "intolerance" to cover the rather woolly "it makes my left toe nail grow wonky" type stuff.

Of course, there's a continuum from real, life threatening illness, through various degrees of inconvenience to "requires me to pay a lot to a quack to be diagnosed for random symptoms that are probably hypochondria. It's the latter end that I struggle with and which I feel are on the up.

Rache / Hazel / Other Scientists - what about declining rates of breastfeeding and/or early weaning (ie when the gut isn't ready for anything other than milk)? aren't there studies to suggest these both increase risk of developing allergies in later life? and as bfing rates have fallen for the last ?5 decades allergy/intolerance rates would increase accordingly?

(proviso: this isn't meant to start a BT stylee debate, i'm well aware that some formula fed babies are as strong as oxen, just wondering about the possibility of a correlation)

FiS, I was BF for the first 6 weeks and weaned at 4months and have had gastro issues most of my life. When I'm feeling mean I wind my mum up about it ?

I'm also allergic to flu/tetanus vaccine, elastoplast glue, dog and cat saliva and dust. Hmmmm.

AFAIK there's no correlation over the years; breastfeeding rates are increasing since the 1970s but allergies are rising over that time.

Peanut allergy is an interesting one. The countries which use peanuts most have the lowest rates of allergies. Peanut allergy is virtually unheard of in India where grounnut oil is widely used. There is increasing evidence that skin contact with peanuts ie groudnut oil based skin creams and emollients which hwere used heavily in the 70s and 80s may be partially responsible. In this regard natural is not better. Petroleum based emollients do not cause allergy but lanolin (naturally occurring sheeps wool protein) and peanut oil absorbed through the skin, are implicated.

I'm not sure if I'm remembering this incorrectly but I'm sure I read on BT once that a lot of intolerances and IBS stuff can be attributed to a whole generation weaning earlier than before. Pre WWII, most babies were breast fed and weaned later due to lack of correct food but post war, more convience foods became available and used before babies guts were ready for them. The 12-16 week race for weaning did far more long term damage than good, hence the 6 month virgin gut (ie exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months) become more common again amongst certain cycles.

Sorry, I posted this when I was on pg 7 and thought I was at the end. ?

Hmm. I'm not good with people who claim to have every intolerance under the sun and it turns out that they can eat mung beans or crisps or whatever it is they claim makes them ill, but only when it suits them. Thus, when I developed a - something - to wheat it pissed me off royally, because I hated having to say "oh, and I don't eat wheat" because it sounds so wankerish. It's on the mend now, seemingly (scones, hurrah!) but at it's height I'd go green and faint if I ate wheat, of any sort. Not an allergy, I don't think, but it was definitely real. God knows I kept trying to catch it out, but it was still there - and worse with organic or wholewheat.

So what was all that about? My diet was shocking before it happened, but I don't think I did what pieman suggested and cut out all the crap - if anything it got even worse as I couldn't even eat sandwiches at work so lived on sugary coffee, haribo and chocolate.

Re. fussy eaters. Well, as I might have mentioned, Mr Layabout's food things have driven me crazy at times. But talking to MIL about it, I can sort of see how it came about, and I don't blame her. We're fantastically well informed these days, not least by things like BT. If you have a problem with your children, you have endless sources of information. She was just given the witches' warning by the GP and health visitor about "feeding them up" and left to get on with it. My SIL wouldn't eat. At all. She'd go whole days without food if she wasn't coaxed to eat. Now, it would take a pretty brave parent to keep calling a child's bluff with the "eat it or go hungry" thing if you're being badgered by the school and GP and everyone because your child will happily go without food rather than eat things they hate. I think all she ate was potato. It's really easy to nod wisely and say that you'd be really strict until you're in that situation I think.

Im a faddy/fussy eater but try to keep my nasty habit to myself.My friends favourite example is i love and adore spag bol but i cant eat the mince,makes me gag so over the years ive devised a way of getting the spaghetti onto my fork without any mince getting in my mouth.

And yes i have tried it without the mince but somehow doesnt taste the same?

When i around friends houses i just eat whatever they have offered me unless it something i cant eat like cheese makes me feel not too well and as im a small eater anyway no eyebrows are raised if leave half my food as im notorious for never finishing a meal i dont have a big appetite and have never eaten a starter main and pud as im sure my tummy would pop?

God, if you did this at my house I'd be livid ? I can't bear grim table manners and that def falls into that category.

The weaning thing could be relevant, but I don't think it can explain all of it.

I wonder if in India, peanut allergy has been effectively removed from the gene pool because you'd be unlikely to have survived childhood so wouldn't get a chance to pass on those genes. In the UK it was introduced relatively recently but alongside a pretty good medical system which means people with peanut allergy can survive.

Would you? Surely as someone who has admitted they struggle to drag themselves through a plate of poor food I think its a fairly mild way of not appearing too rude whilst dealing with your own fads?

I have to say i dont know why this would bother you as its not as i spit it out!!!!I have worked out a way to get the spaghetti onto my fork with out the mince gettin on also.so i just dont eat the mince it stays on the plate

Otherwise i have lovely table manners ?Well i think so anyway....

I enjoy the taste of the spaghetti and sauce but cant bear the texture of the mince????I think i may have chocked or something when i was younger

As i said i have devised a way over the years of getting the spaghtti onto the fork without the mince and i never gor for the spag bol when im eating out only at home where my silly fads are tolerated

Forgot to mention this is the same response i got from my friends when they found out its now accepted as me just being me im a little odd at times ?

I'm not buying this, because the increase in alergies has happened so recently - over too short a time for survuval of the fittest IYSWIM

I'd heard about peanut actually being used as a first food in countries with low incidence of peanut allergies

I avoided kiwi fruit for years because I once had the tingly mouth/tongue reaction to it. I also had pain and burning when in contact with latex and couldn't use band aids or elastoplast. I also reacted to micropore and similar surgical tapes.

I had allergy testing after having my daughter and I didn't react to any of those things. The only things I am allergic to now are grass pollens and dust mites.

I don't know why I don't react anymore. I can use plasters without a problem now. I still try to avoid kiwi fruit just in case.

Oh, I reacted quite badly to 3 different antibiotics pre-pregnancy as well, but blood tests post-pregnancy showed no antibodies.

What's that about then? Can pregnancy alter an immune reaction? Could it be 1L of blood transfusions?

I absolutely love food, but there are definitely certain foods that don't agree with me - onions, any kind of bean/pulse, curry all make me bloat like mad. Pineapple makes my tongue sore as does Big Red cinnamon chewing gum - I can have one piece but if I have more than one in a short period my mouth gets very sore. I also have a rash reaction to grass so if I sit on it with bare legs it will come up in a rash (not raised hives, just red marks) wherever I've touched and it itches a bit.

I wouldn't describe any of these things as allergies and do not change my life around them - I would eat any of the foods above, I just wouldn't choose to have (say) curry one night, baked beans the next - it's just not worth the unpleasantness ?. If I have dinner at a friend's house I will eat anything I'm given and to be honest there aren't many foods I don't like but if I come across something I'll eat enough not to look rude.

However I can quite believe that there are people who have reactions no more severe than mine who will claim to be allergic - I wonder if it's to do with communication problems - people seem so much less honest with each other these days, and it's easier to say you're allergic than go through the 'when did you last try it? you'll like the way I cook it' thing - although it's completely ridiculous and inconsiderate.

I cant abide fussy eaters

when i met gary his roast dinner consited of meat , potatoes and gravy

now he eats everything sprouts included

i for one will eat ehats put in front of me adn like it or lump it , the only thing i ma say no to is plastic bread as i swell up terrible

tonight i hve thrown away my lettice tomato and cucumber tho as it had had a greasy burger on top

i ma drunk and would eat anything just not that , new kitchen tomorrow no cooker ?

ffs last time the girls came down i fed them iceland buffet and they ate it , likr it or lump it i say ?

Zebra....Oh noooooo, I love potatoes. In fact I crave them if I haven't had them for a while (which I read somewhere was another sign of intolerance - your body craving what it shouldn't have). I admit it does sound like an allergy though from that Bupa link (I think I've just beome one of those annoying people with a food allergy ?

Lady F - that's interesting. I've never noticed any of the other things affecting me - and I love peppers and aubergines.

What an absolutely hilarious description of my daughters life threatening condition. Not.

Anyway, moving on from that, JK, medics and Hitched scientists a couple of interesting points (others may find in mindlessly boring!):

my daughter is a peanut anaphalactic (epi pen carrier etc), I avoided nuts (and everything else I was advised) during pregnancy and 10 months of breastfeeding. I did the opposite with my son and he's okay. My daughters allergy consultant said that there is interest now around the theory that peanut avoidance is the very thing that is causing the spike in peanut anaphalaxia, and that there is a theory that minor expose to allergens at an early stage may actually help. She was very keen to stress that there is not enough data to bring about a change in current medical advice (peanut avoidance for under 5's) but it is an interesting theory.

JK - The bit that you may be interested in is that my daughter is also diagnosed with Aspergers Syndrome. Two different sources have mentioned to me the (unproven) connection between kids with Autitic Spectrum Disorders and allergies / intolerance. One was a NAS person, the other was the consultant that diagnosed my daughter with ASD. I struggle to see how this would be the case, but like I say it has been mentioned to me twice have you heard anything similar?

I hadn't realised it was up till 5. I originally thought it was just under 1's until I found something last week that said under 3's. If advice is under 5, it'd be good to be told at some point.

I'm worried that I given the wrong info now, that's what it was when our daughter was born, which was 1999. I'm Googling, be right back.....

I'm allergic to sulphites, but finding a wine without them is bloody difficult. Cheaper red wine is worse, but even white and rosé often contain sulphites. I still drink wine, I just know the ones to avoid! Or take anti-histamines and have my inhaler to hand...

I'm a bit of a fussy eater, I try so hard not to be but there are some foods I just don't like. For example, olives, cabbage, peas, pork - I try them all periodically and just don't like the taste. However, if I was served them I would grin and bear it and swallow as much as I could without gagging / pulling faces. I wish I liked more stuff, I'll try anything new but there are certain things I just can't enjoy and avoid given the choice.

Ok, the 1998 CMO advice, which it appears still stands is as follows:

The CMO also advised:

# Children at risk should avoid food containing peanut products until they are at least three-years-old.

# No children under five should eat whole peanuts because of the risk of choking.

It looks like the CMO are currently reviewing the current advice though, as recently as July 08. They appear to be waiting for a couple of studies to be published in peer reviews before making a final decision.

FiS...I was bf for about 2 years and not weaned till 6 months and I ended up with asthma, hayfever, various other allergies and at 19 I developed excema! Blimin typical ?

Well in my (unqualified) opinion, intolerances are associated with children with ASDs, but certainly in Lexi's case, it doesn't appear to make him more or less autistic, as it were. If anything, being dairy-free reveals his more obsessive traits. That said, his language has massively improved since we reduced and then stopped his dairy intake, but that may have happened anyway. Who knows? What I do know is that dairy foods give him diarrhoea. That's enough ?

As aside, a gluten-free diet seemed to make no difference at all, except to make our lives nightmarish. If there is a small payoff, it's not worth it for us.

That's interesting JK. I completely agree, the allergy link does not make them more or less autistic! But I find the possible link really interesting. Thanks for your reply.

I think that's what I mean - in India where peanuts have been eaten for millenia, the population have evolved to eliminate peanut allergy. In the UK, where we've only been eating peanuts for a few hundred years at most (it wasn't brought to Europe until post-Columbus days) we haven't had time to do that yet. Even within those few hundred years, peanuts have only become really popular recently, but also, it's only in the last 50 years that we've had the ability to treat severe anaphylaxis so have had the luxury of having peanut allergic children around.

I am a self-confessed fussy eater but I am getting better at trying things and I try to be as healthy as I can with the things I do like. I can't eat certain things as they cause migraines (mainly chocolate) and I hate certain other foods, the main ones being fish, cheese, eggs, milk/cream. My Mum said her problems started when she began asking me what I wanted to eat, before that I ate most things. Never every touched fish though.

Does anyone know if there is a link between antibiotics given at birth and food/peanut etc allergy and whether the child is breastfed or not?

I ask cos the child I referred to earlier with the peanut allergy, had apparently been given antibiotics at birth and had been exclusively breastfed and then BF till he self weaned around 4.

My child was given antibiotics at birth and was bottle fed. AFAIK he has no food allergies well none that I've found so far.

This child's mother, when we were chatting about it on holiday seemed to say something about how the good bacteria in the gut are destroyed by ABs at birth and not reinstated by BFing. Is this true, as it seems then to blame the ABs on the food allergy? But then I guess ABs aren't given to that many newborns that would explain the prevalence in food allergies that seems to have come about.

I alluded to avoidance being a potential cause when I was talking about countries with a low incidence - I think it's quite a widespread feeling amongst medics. I mention it to pregnant women who come in in a panic because they accidentally ingested peanuts.

Re ASD/ diarrhoea/"IBS" - again quite well known amongst paediatricians - I first came across it a couple of years ago. Noone knows why. Is it something in the gut that causes autism, or something that causes both autism and leaky gut. Who knows, but certainly I now ensure that parents of autistics get the chance to see a paediatric dietitian if they have problems.

I'm fussy in that, like SophieM, I only like eating good quality, well prepared and well cooked food. A friend of mine managed to serve me overcooked pasta with raw pumpkin for supper the other night, and I had to struggle to eat it. She is a hopeless cook, but I can only avoid her invitations so many times without looking rude.

I also suffer from Oral Allergy Syndrome, which is aggravated mostly by bananas, kiwi, melons (all varieties), coconut and, oddly, latex. It's something to do with the body thinking the proteins are those of plant pollens and attacking them, and I get different reactions from each. Bananas and coconut make me vomit, kiwi and melon I blister and the inside of my mouth and face swells up. I had a cocktail in a bar where the barman hadn't washed the equipment thoroughly enough between drinks, and the drink he made a couple prior to mine contained kiwi - I got blisters all along my lip and inside my mouth, which wasn't pleasant.

I'm pretty sure the gut is sterile when we are born (there's no way to get the bugs in there in utero) and that bacteria are only introduced as a result of what we are then fed. We do know that different substrates (eg breastmilk and formula) give rise to differences in the bacteria present but I'm not sure that there's a case to suggest that ABs at birth cause problems in this way since there aren't any bugs there to wipe out - although I know a lot of people do pin a lot of problems on perinatal ABs.