G20 Protesters Accounts vs Journalists Accounts

I think they are pretty forceful aren't they - the way I see it, the containment doesn't really hurt* anyone innocent but it is a way of dealing with the rioters .

The water cannons could hurt people surely? And could they damage property (especially if there is already broken glass around)? Plus I am sure they would be expensive and a PITA to deploy.

*having already established that when choosing to attend they should not expect toilet or catering facilities and be prepared that they may be stuck there for a while. so basically the same risk as catching a virgin train.

I understand that the baton guns are actually known as 'less lethal' options. Although I do know a bobby who has shot someone with a baton gun. The shot person was actually lucky because the other option was a real bullet and it was purely down to which officer was in a position to shoot first.

This reminds me of Hilsborough, the police reporting that they were attacked trying to do their job as justification for failing to act appropriately.

Less lethal than 9mm, maybe. Certainly a good deal more dangerous than water cannon. Particularly it has to be said, in the hands of a Bobby who me only have met his riot gun once or twice in the last year.

Have you actually read the reports on the incident last night?

A bit late to this but just wanted to pick up on a couple of points I totally agree with.

I think it was Janna who made the point that a certain percentage of people wouldn't even have a clue what the protest was about and I agree wholeheartedly. To my mind yesterday was about two disctinct groups of people - the people who had researched, knew what was happening and were intent on making a peaceful protest. Then the others, who because the media had gone on and on about violence in previous years, knew that there was a good chance of a jolly good rumble. To my mind, they are like the football hooligans who actually have no interest in the game but use it as an excuse to kick seven bells out of each other. I really feel for the workers - both police and bank - yesterday who were at the heart of this. I have been caught up in serious football hooliganism twice and it is not pleasant.

Secondly Nick - I have to say that anyone who turns up to something like this at any stage of pregnancy is taking unneccesasary risks - risk of no toilets would be the least of my worries!

What was shown on the news during the day was actually very misleading regarding 'containment'. The police formed a wall at the bottom of Threadneedle Street by the Bank of England. Further up the road (where the RBS branch is) was not walled by police. There were three or four police vans parked there, with the officers standing around/sitting in the van and any protester could have easily walked away. All very easy going and peaceful at that end! Once they moved up to the RBS end, the mood had changed quite drastically and any non-confrontational protester had more than enough time and freedom to get away from there.

Can I just enquire where you got your 400 from ?

I've checked through 4 daily papers (Mirror, Mail, Telegraph and Times) and none of the quote such a figure. The Times merely describes then as "one group", while even The Mail, possibly the most reactionary of the bunch, suggests there were "a handful", and that they were rapidly flushed out by police dog teams.

The Telegraph sets the figure for hardcore trouble-makers at about 40 and claims they were largely ignored by the masses of peaceful protesters.

I make that less thah 1% of the total, so I stand by my initial figure and suggest that you have incorrectly inflated the number to suit your own position.

432 protesters involved in an illegal or violent act is not a small minority at all especially in a densely populated area. Its quite disturbing the amount of damage these people could do to the other 4968 peaceful protesters, not to mention police officers and innocent by standers/workers.

Waaah, from the Guardian's report ?:

"But those peaceful demonstrators caught inside the cordon with no toilet facilities, and little water, questioned the idea that they were being allowed to exercise their right to march. "The police should let us dribble out when we need to," said June Rogers, a gardener from south London."

? What a wonderful turn of phrase.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUKL197133120090401, it was also reported in the FT but the page has now been removed.

The number of arrests stands at 86 yesterday as widely reported and in situations such as those it is not possible to arrest all agitators when in a large crowd. I am not sure where you came up with the figure of 40 hardcore troublemakers? Have you perhaps deflated the numbers to suit your position? ?

You haven't answered my question as to why city workers deserve verbal abuse either.....

I'm not sure how waving wads of cash from their office windows was intended to help the situation - perhaps you can enlighten me.

P&P - Does not matter if it's 1 or a 1000 - fact is they should not be using violence full stop - They are actually causing harm & disruption to those who have quite frankly nothing to do with the grievance the "Peaceful Protesters" have with the economy.

They were out to solely cause problems , yes you had the climate camp with their cath kitson bunting & cakes set up at 62 Bishopsgate, but these I should imagine are people doing it for fun whilst on Easter break from uni, how many people knew about the Climate Exchange before yesterday ? If I was going to make a protest about something that I felt so strongly about or had directly been affected by, I would not be smashing windows & rampaging to get my point across.

As for facilities, within 50ft of where they all were , is 3 Starbucks, a Tesco Express , 2 Pret's & Corney & Barrows , all open & trading as normal.

Yes, I appreciate this, and those causing criminal damage / acting in a violent manner should be caught and punished in accordance to the law. I don't think I've said anything to the contrary. What I did say is that the presence of 7000 police was probably excessive for 5000 peaceful protesters and a couple of dozen bad eggs.

I don't think P&P is defending the violence, is he?

But the police can only go by previous experience , like 1999. So really it's better to have had more police present than not too.

If it was the weekend, I'd say less police would have been involved, but the police were not only there for the protesters they were also there to protect those who were working & if that was controlling crowds than so be it.

I think there's a general misconception about 'peaceful protest'.

Peaceful Protest is not confined to standing where you are told you can stand, for the length of time you are told you can stand there, holding hands, waving your placard and singing 'We Shall Overcome".

Well - they are back outside the Bank of England. As you do. After yesterday. Because, of course, they have the legal right to protest. And I have no rights and have to be locked in my office for the second day running. And they are using the office as a toilet. Again.

Bit melodramatic ?

P&P, I am not sure whether you are just on this post to wind people up or you can only see things from your point of view. If you read back through the other posts, you will notice that there is some sympathy with workers going about their day to day business and that they should be able to expect to earn a living without the fear of a repeat of yesterday. It was written fairly tongue in cheek. But as you so rightly say, they have a right to a legal protest. Therefore, I have a right to get mighty peed off with listening to helicopters, chanting and being surrounded by riot police and working behind locked doors.

And I'm still waiting for your answer as to why officer workers were deserving of the abuse as well.

Pretty sure I answered that one as well.

Yes, because all of us were hanging out of windows with wads of cash yesterday...

It has been pretty surreal yesterday and today.

Did you actually see footage of them waving wads of cash?

In the same way as ALL the protesters are balaclava wearing sinister types who are determined to widdle against office windows whilst bringing down society...

Again. If you check back, I'm pretty sure you'll find I used the qualifier "some".

For those that think I lack sympathy I'll tell you a little story . . .

I work for an organisation that has protesters outside on a weekly basis. Not yearly, but 52 times a year.

In the past, colleagues of mine have been physically assaulted, so now, once the protesters arrive, the only way on or off site is in one of the organisation's vehicles, driven by a member of the security team.

At least once a year, the protesters arrange a big one, where I have been subjected to tirades of vile abuse from hordes of the ill-informed.

I long ago accepted that it was an occupational hazard working for the organisation that I do.

Unless I'm missing a previous quote (I only checked back to the top of page 4):

"

memyselfandi:

You haven't answered my question as to why city workers deserve verbal abuse either.....

P&aP: I'm not sure how waving wads of cash from their office windows was intended to help the situation"

Surely the point here is that most protesters are not "sinister" (PL, I certainly never said that) and most City workers are far from being the cause of the current economic situation.

P&aP, the protests outside your work place sound horrible.

Yes, exactly. I know you didn't say anything about the protesters being "sinister", but the emphasis on here and on other threads about it has been on protesters being violent troublemakers and I think it's a great shame that's the perception that's being fostered, by whatever means.

Sorry, I even misquoted myself there. The original phrase I used (page 1) said:

A few of them probably deserved it.

I fully accept your point about responsible reporting or the lack therof, the numbers 300-400 were reported widely yesterday but it seems all the stories have now been amended and I hadn't checked today.

86 people were arrested yesterday, I think it could have been a lot more but to be honest that's not the main problem I have with the protests. I don't think the majority of people have a clear understanding of what they were protesting against and it just became a free for all. I also think there is a basic misunderstanding of the reason behind this current crisis and I really have issue with the amount of people who are turning around and pointing the finger without understanding the facts. The right to protest is one vital to democracy but I also think there is a responsibly that goes along with that to educate yourself to what you are protesting about

Theres a great line on holymoly today "well, at least the producers of bargain hunt will be happy that their core audience is back home from the g20 protest" ?

I quite like the day after event being held at excel tomorow, maybe the protesters could stay on & get some advice.

https://www.excel-london.co.uk/whatson/events/85/