Getting into work - what's reasonable?

A. I left the house at 6am on Monday to get to the office on time. The road conditions were foreseeable (as were public transport delays as they were widely publicised).

If you know the roads of going to extra busy (either because of bad weather or a traffic accident) then you leave earlier to make it on time, it's common curtesy really.

I leave work a little earlier but I'm not going to kill myself getting up 2 hours earlier than usual.

But I do think you should put in extra effort to be there at your usual start time, or as close to it as is reasonably possible.

Our boss is fine with us being late. I really think it is at management discretion, and not a blanket thing. We have been told though that any time we are late must be made up if we are late, and if we can't get in it has to be taken as hols.

I also think that it is on a personal level whether you can be bothered to make that effort. Certain people can and will try to get in on time, but others will take advantage of the situation (such as someone in our office yesterday who stated trains were cancelled and they weren't and then got miffed off he had to have the day as holiday...I only know the trains weren't cancelled as my friend got in no problem!).

A) If I know it's going to be icy, snowy etc I do my very best to leave the house a bit earlier to factor in scraping the car/driving a bit slower. It's not your employer's problem when you have to leave the house.

A) in general unless there are reasons that a significantly longer journey (by a factor of 2 or 3) will affect your health (arthritis, MS, pregnancy conditions) in which case, b)

Same here, I do generally try to make the effort to arrive at work on time, but if for whatever reason I am more than a couple minutes late i'll make it up either in my lunch hour or by standing on later.

I would say both - You know it's going to take longer, so start earlier, but I would hope for a bit of leeway for being late (for a bog standard office job with 9-6 hours - if you are relieving others on a shift system it's different)

I think it depends really - I use public transport so am at the mercy of TFL to a certain extent. I left early yesterday because I knew there would be knock-on problems and managed to make it to Earl's Court by 8.30am, so would have been nice and early.... were I then not stuck at Earl's Court for 40 minutes due to a defective train signal. Total pain in the arse.

I couldn't work late as I had an appointment last night - but the train was 30 minutes late after work anyway. I HATE the District Line.

To answer your original question, you need to leave sufficient time if you think there will be a problem but sometimes circumstances are beyond your control.

Well I had no choice Monday or yesterday as no trains were running at all thrgouh my station or leaving our local depot.

However today they were so I left a little earlier (30mins) to makie way for any delays or cancellations.

I'd say a)

Daughter went back to school today, we walk & it takes 10mins normally to get in for 8.45am -9am. It took us 25 mins due to the pavement conditions , I knew they were bad as we walked through the area yesterday, so I left home at 8..30 to take it easy & the fact I had to push a pram.

If you were going to the airport & knew it was rush hour, bad weather etc... you would not leave at the minimum time it takes, you allow yourself time , otherwise your late.

Well yes if you are a sensible, rational thinking person. Have you never seen Airline or Airport? How many numpties leave it until the last minute before rushing through the airport then complain because Easyjet have closed check-in. ?

Surely OP isnt serious with option B? as an employee you have contracted hours, 9-5 in many cases. it is the responsibility of the employee to be there under the terms of their contract.

i had a girl once who used to be late a lot and blamed the bus - "the bus was late again" - so get an earlier bus. she felt it wasnt reasonable as the earlier bus would (should) get here in at 0840, and why should she be in work 20 minutes earlier than she had to? ?. once i pointed out that she wouldnt have to be anywhere on time when she was unemployed she suddenly started getting the earlier bus.

? Like those people who come into work and arrive at 8.45 and refuse point blank to turn their PC on before 9.00 as that was their "contracted start time". It used to drive me insane - so actually by the time you've picked up the files I've sorted for you, and turned your PC on its ten past!

Whereas you do like I do, start work as you get in at 8.30 then in situations such as the above the HoD is so much more lenient and is quite happy for you to be later in because you normally work so much time over your contracted hours.

Its not the employers fault either.

It is IMO your responsibility to get to work on time x

Not sure why my OP came out in such a tiny font!

I definitely think A. I manage two people and one of them left at 7am to make sure she got in for 9 (when we start) both yesterday and today, while the other got in at 9.40 yesterday and 9.25 today and mentioned in the course of conversation that she'd left for work at around the same time as usual. She's normally pretty punctual so I haven't mentioned it yet - I think I'll see what happens tomorrow as if there isn't any more snow things should really be almost back to normal so there isn't really an excuse.

It's all about leeway. I'm in every day at 8am or just after, even though my work hours are officially 9am - 5.30pm.

It suits me to get in early as transport is much less crowded then and it means I'm up and running by the time most people are in. Also means I can grab breakfast from the restaurant and enjoy in peace at my desk.

By doing this, I've always been given leeway by my bosses. Yesterday for example. I didn't take a lunch break as I wanted to be able to leave a little early to avoid the inevitable madness. However, when I saw that nearly all my trains were cancelled and asked to leave just before 4pm I was told it was no problem as I'd already worked my contracted hours.

I think if you show willing to be somewhere on time, when it does go wrong it's not held against you.

This used to irritate me as well. If your contracted hours are 9 - 5, then you should be sat at your desk with your pc on ready to start work by 9. That doesn't mean you walk in the front door at 9, then spend 15 minutes fannying around turning pcs on, getting cups of tea and doing your make up.

One of my colleagues would be on time for work 1 day out of 5 and genuinely didn't understand that maybe he should just *shock* get himself out of bed earlier. If you are only on time 20% of the time, you need to start thinking that maybe it is your fault you are late rather than blaming traffic / weather / the cat.

A - I had to get up at 3.30am to make sure I made my flight yesterday - unlike my colleague who said that his assistant hadn't told him there was a chance that the flights would be operating ...

If someone is usually prompt then there's a degree of leeway but someone who isn't making the effort would irriate me

I agree with A , but I do think that if there is genuinley a health and safety issue the employer should take some responsibility and make sure no one is put at undue risk (eg driving jobs ).

I would say (a) but sometimes it's not just possible to leave your house several hours earlier than normal to get in in time. If you have a child in a childminder or nursery you're not going to be able to drop them off there at 6 in the morning. If it were me I'd leave as early as I feasibly could, and if I was late for work I'd make up the time. Our work is very busy over lunch so a few days of taking shortened lunch breaks would sort it.

I think I'm very lucky that my team work more than is required so i am willing as their manager to do a bit of give and take. None of them seriously take the p1ss so i'm happy.

I have no flexibility in my hours now due to childcare but i'm doing my best to keep on top of things and work this week on my days off. On Monday whilst it wasn't safe to drive i did get the train in later to the city office i couldn't make it to the remote one. My boss is satisfied with this compromise.

There also seems to remain a huge gulf in levels of understanding of employees in terms of the business. i dont mean everyone before someone starts bleating at me, but a large number. so many people dont seem to understand that their collective productivity is what keeps the business afloat. so many man hours are lost by people getting in at 9:15, and people going to the loo at 4:45 and not coming out until 5 etc, or taking extra time for lunch. its vast. those same people seem (to me) to see the firm as the evil monster who is screwing them and not paying them enough, yet without thinking that without it, they d be unemployed. in the current economic climate, no one can afford to *** around with skiving off or pissing about, not least because they may be the first out of the door at redundancy time, but also because companies NEED people to be working hard to keep them going.

The above is the main reason I feel so damn annoyed with the decision to close so many schools in lancashire on monday and yesterday, meaning thousands of parents couldnt go to work. i still maintain that it was immensely thoughtless and moronic. when this was discussed yesterday, those who mentioned going to school in heavy snow seemed to be accoused of being nostalgic or having rose tinted spectacle syndrome, but we used to have to do that. in fact i remember us all helping my dad push the car into the road through huge amounts of snow and then slipping and sliding our way to school, some 16 miles away. there was never a question of staying at home, not ever. interestingly, when i was on the road on monday morning at 7am, the only other vehicles i saw until the motorway were tradespeople. plumbers, electricians, joiners all in their vans because they HAVE to get on with it to earn money. i m still angry about the pathetic people who stayed at home in this region on monday and tuesday.

In my workplace (public sector) we operate a flexi time system. We have those people who like to be here at 8 and some (like me ?) who like to come in about 9.20. Luckily we're very quiet at the moment as, (unluckily), our office is closing in the next few months, therefore only having a few folks in at 9 wasn't a disaster. So the last two days while some people have come in later then usual, they will record it as a late start on their flexi sheets and make the time up accordingly.

So my answer is a) if you are contracted to be working from 9am, you should make all reasonable efforts to be there (including getting up earlier). However if itsn't critical to work for you to be there at a specific time then during unusual circumstances coming in late and making up the time shouldn't be a problem for employer or employee.

I totally agree Nick - also the people who are repeatedly late from lunch/go early to lunch and don't make up the time. Work had a sign in and out thing and an assistant in my dept. used to be regularly late back from lunch and sign in as if she was on time - used to drive me bonkers!

H worked from home Monday and Tuesday simply to avoid the fools on the road! Fortunately we have an office here and he's in the position to do that. My dad went to work (mum's off sick but would have done had the school not been shut!). There's so much apathy about work ethics that it really makes me cross!

I agree with Nick. I made it into work monday morning in the fresh snow and hvaing never driven in it before was quite surprised to see half the pople in out industrial estate hadn't come in. Fair enough - our estate isn't gritted and i was all over the place but i did it.

H is self employed, so can't just stay at home or we would have no money! He was out and about monday getting tyres changed and sorting out his van (trying to find somewhere open) and then drove his van to here where he is contracted 2 days a week and we both walked home (45 mins) he was fully ready and got up at 3am to walk back here to start his journey to Glasgow. (as it happens the road was clear so he took my car so I had to beg a lift!) I saw no reason what so ever for anyone in my area to stay at home, or for the schools to close but they did.

I don't understand people who are under threat of redundancy not being bothered about timings, work and effort. Surely you need to show the people who matter they can't do without you therefore work your bums off!

I think that although, generallty, an employee should make sure their on tim, when there are geunuinely extenuating circumstances you have to have a bit of flexibility.

So, if someone got caught up in new roadworks on, for example, Monday, fair enough. If they were delayed in the same roadworks on Tuesday and didn't set out earlier to make up for it, not so good.

Where the weather is concerned, I think it is very unpredictable. I have lost count of the number of times we've had snow/bad weather predicted locally, and you end up with a few flakes of snow. Therefore I probably wouldn't set my alarm early for tomorrow, for example, even though they're forecasting heavy snow. Nor would I expect ny staff to. But if it's still bad by the weekend, I would expect me/them to set out early/make every effort to get in on time. Mind you, more than about 3 flakes and we'll have loads of people cancelling appointments anyway

L
xx

but what you describe above is the difference between understanding what can be involved in a business, and not. i ve lost count of the times people used to say to me "oh its alright for you, you re the boss, you can come and go as you please" (and cheeky employees used to say that too). but the reality is that you work probably double the hours of any employee, and when youre not there during the day, its because youre with client, or on a trip etc. i was talking to a guy yesterday about this (he runs 3 chip shops), and he said he was hardly doing any business in his shops at all due to the weather, yet there he was working, and mentioned that he d been doing his accounts to midnight on sunday, then trips to suppliers leaving at 5am on the monday etc. this is the reality of running a business of all kinds of sizes, and its sad that so many dont give a toss about that, and just take the paycheck without really realising where it comes from, or how they contribute to it.

The way I look at it, if my bosses who are on higher ground with more snow and ice can get in then so can I.

I thought one of the ladies here was the only one who ever did the toilet thing at 3.45pm when going home at 4pm but obviously not. I'm always amazed that she needs the loo at the same time every day. Why would someone do that? Very odd.

We were talking in the office about who managed to make it in on Monday and who didn't - I was in touch with my boss on the phone for the whole morning. I ended up walking four miles into the centre of town, thinking that the District Line might reopen beyond Earl's Court but it didn't. There weren't any taxis around either. My boss thanked me for trying but told me to go home because it was unreasonable to expect me to travel 26 miles with no train line, bus services or taxis around.

I still wonder how I managed to walk over eight miles - whereas someone who lives fifteen minutes walk from the office couldn't do the same - they were worried about falling over.

Cos you're 'ard SLD!

? Well quite! I did it in ballet pumps too, what a fool!