Giving away a baby

Just as a bit of a warning, OT is often a safe haven for people who are experiencing problems trying to conceive, soit may not be wholly apporpriate for here, sorry.

Very bizzare situation though, are social services etc involved?

Wow. I wonder why it hasn't been done officially. I find it quite upsetting that they would have kept a boy, but not a girl.

Sorry, just read that it's not official, I'd be majorly concerend about that, and informing social services.

I'm not sure it's your place to question their motives. As long as the baby is cared for and loved, what does it matter?

I agree thatt he motives don't really matter and selfishness/lack thereof isn't the issue. What I would be concerned about is potential future impact on the child. Will she know that she was "given away"? What if the natural parents subsequently have a boy and keep him? But none of this is your business really.

What if the birth parents change their mind in 6 months time, baby bonded with 'new parents', but biological parents could just take the child back. It really needs to be done officially.

I'm sorry, I don't understand why and what you think Social Services would do?

Surely its no-one elses business but their own and her brothers. I don't think it is up to anyone else to question the mothers motives really. If anything, if she were my friend I would be encouraging her to have some counselling, although it is impossible for anyoneone to know what she's really going through.

Maybe I'm coming at it from too much of a child protection view (part of my job), but if I was a close enough friend I'd be pushing her to make this official. Sorry if I being like a dog with a bone.

I'd be worried that she could decide years down the line that she wants her daughter back. It's also a bit worrying that she said they would have kept the baby had it been a boy. PND crossed my mind, as it's not a decision that would be made lightly. I'm not sure if I would contact SS though, maybe I would. I think she needs to discuss it with someone professional, so perhaps SS would be the right people for that. I'm also surprised that her brother and wife took the baby. It's a sad situation, I hope everything works out for the best.

Well there are hundreds of unofficial fostering arrangements out there, I'm sure. It might well throw up problems with things like parental rights (what if the birth parents split up?), getting passports, medical consent, school.

How clearly is your friend thinking, I wonder?

I don't think it can be dismissed with a 'what does it matter?' It does matter imo. My experience in this is pretty limited (to a few acquaintances' experiences) so I'm no expert, but my opinion is that even at that young age a baby can experience a kind of rejection, and let's face it, if, as anjumanji says, the couple gave the baby away because she's a girl, but would have kept her if she'd been a boy, there was a certain element of that to it. I also think that if the child finds out later in life that auntie whoever is really mum, she's going to have some pretty big issues to deal with.

What a difficult situation. I'd encourage your friend to talk to someone in authority. She needs to be sure she's doing the right thing and won't regret it in time. I admire her if she goes through with it though- what a selfless thing to do.

Whilst I think that in some circumstances giving a baby to a sibling (done through the correct channels and officially) would be an amazingly generous thing to do, this doesn't sound like those circumstances have been met at all and it sounds sad and worrying as others have said. I'd also be concerned that it hadn't been done officially and concerned about the future repercussions and about the motives/state of mind of the parents.

How worrying. I assume this wasn't something she was considering before she had the baby ? It just seems like a rather snap decision to make on something so important.

I wonder because she has been ill throughout her pregancy that she has associated the negative experience with this child. Just my thoughts but probably way off.

While I accept that it isn't my place to question her motives, as pointed out by a few people, I do feel it odd that they would have kept the baby if it'd been a boy. Like SophieM, RuthG and others have said the impact on the little girl could be very negative.

This friend is not a very close friend, today's call was just a catch up, the first call after the birth of the baby which was several months ago. The baby was given away a few days after the birth.

Also, how old are the other 2 girls? Old enough to remember that mum was PG and gave child away, they would need counselling too, surely?

I think its perfectly appropriate for here, and don't see how anyone can think otherwise.

out on a limb here, but is it an Indian Family? Only I have heard of this happening in Indian familes and it seems to be far less of a taboo than it does initially to Westeners.

WPLS

Leaving the moral aspect aside, essentially the baby is currently 'on loan' to the new parents. I too would be urging my friend to make this official. What if, god forbid, the baby developed a serious illness or was in a serious accident. Who would give medical consent? What if the siblings had different thoughts on blood transfusions, life support etc

I don't see what social services would be expected to do. It certainly doesn't count as a child protection issue unless there are some issues to do with the standard of care the baby is receiving from her uncle and aunt. There are loads and loads of children who for whatever reason live with aunts/uncles/grandparents and usually there is no need at all for social services to be involved.

Putting aside my own personal feelings about the girl/boy issue (particularly as the mother of 4 very wanted girls), I wonder about a couple of things. Firstly was this a pre-arranged thing, like a surrogact type arrangement and maybe she just didn't feel confident enough to tell people when she was pregnant? Secondly, if this wasn't pre-arranged then the issue of post-natal depression is a real possibility.

Personally I hope they ave all had counselling before they make any permananet decisions and that if the decision is made that this will be a permanent arrangement that it is put on a secure legal footing. And that they can some up with a better way of explaining it to the child than that her biological parents didn't want her because she was another girl

Because there are hitchers who avoid BT because they have fertility issues, something like this may cause upset. Having fertility issues myself, I can see how this could be incredibly upsetting to some, especially those who don't go on BT, to avoid being reminded of it. I can understand where you are coming from, I just wanted to 'warn' the OP that people may object to it.

I don't often post on here, but this is a subject close to my heart so thought I'd share.

Depending on how official it has been done, then it is actually more common (according to our SW) than people would ever realise. My cousin's son has lived with us for close on 2 years now. Basically her new husband didn't like him and it became an impossible home situation. For reasons I'll never understand she chose her husband over her son.

If it's been done correctly, social services know about it and there's an official agreement (even down to daft things like the new parents are the ones claiming tax credits which will show they are responsible for him) then it doesn't have to be a bad situation for the child. If the agreement is all done and sorted then in my experience Social Services won't be overly involved as they are just too busy.

Much better than my Adam had spending most of his 10 years before he moved in with us knowing his mother didn't actually want him then to be told he had to leave because her husband didn't like him. A secure home with her Uncle and Aunt is (imo) a better life for a child than one in which they grow up knowing they are unloved and unwanted.

Julz, I completely and utterly agree with you, I just think that considering the rather sad circumstances, that official authorities need to be involved, just as you did in your situation.

It is hugely common. Social services would need to be informed in your case because private fostering regulations would apply. But if the child is placed with a grandparent or with an aunt/uncle it is exempt from the private fostering regulations so Social services wouldn't be involved unless there were other concerns.

I'm sorry but this isn't a 'safe haven away from BT' its an open discussion forum, just like baby talk is - the title is very explanatory and easily enough avoided, its not like you could click on it and be surprised as to what its about.

I've been hesitant about contributing to this thread because this topic is extremely personal for me - you don't have to be on BT to be affected by this very sensitive issue.

I was adopted at birth but my adoptive parents decided for reasons I shall never understand, not to tell me until I was 20 years old. In fact my adoptive mother had remarried and my stepfather didn't even know I wasn't her child. I've received counselling but I will continue to be affected by this issue. I'm under no illusion that my decision to be child-free is influenced by this.

I can't put into words how upsetting I find this particular scenario and can only hope that the daughter is told as soon as possible the reasons behind her adoption. To withhold this information - as I have found to my cost - is devastating and it can destroy you if you let it. It will have to be dealt with sensitively and I really do feel that I would have benefited from professional intervention when I was "told" and feel Social Services should be involved from the outset for all parties.

But, in the nicest possible way, what would you have Social Services actually do? Social services would need to be involved in a case like Julz's as they would need to make sure private fostering regulations were applied with. But this arrangement is exempt form private fostering regulations. So I'm not all together sure what social services' role would be.

Yes, the title is self explanatory, and therefore the title in itself is emotionally provocative, is it not? I wasn't in anyway say DON'T POST THIS HERE, I was simply suggesting to her that some posters might be upset by it.

My friends are of Indian background as am I, but I can't say it's common practise, or that I've heard of it before.

Julz it's good to hear your point of view and if the child is more loved and secure in the new environment then it can't be a bad thing.

The conversation has been playing on my mind all day and I feel that writing it down may help put it away.

Legless, you've said what i wanted to a million times better.

CBH, I'm sorry. I can't think what to say, as everything I've typed seems totally inadequete but I am sorry to hear what you've had to go through ?

It must must be conincidence then, my family are friends with 2 (unconnected) Indian families who have done this.

Actually, thinking about it I guess it must have been more common in the past, you often hear of Mothers who brought up their unmarried babies as their own.

I'm not surprised its playing on your mind, I wouldn't know what to think if a friend called and told me this.

I just think that given the circumstances of this that the child in question may have issues when older, the mother sounds like she may not be in the best of mental health and may not have the mental capacity to make a fully informed decision and the remaining children may be effected, surely SS would be able to direct all parties concerned to someone who can help reslove issues that are current and help to prevent potential issues developing? The 'addoptive parents' are obviously going to be delighted, and so would I be, but once/if birth mum returns to a more stable state of mind, she may change her mind, causing mental trauma to all involved. Maybe I'm just being over the top, maybe I'm biased by my own fertility issues, maybe I'm just completely wrong, I just feel that because, as the decisions stands, this isn't just a temporary fostering situation, the parents have given the child away permanently, and boundries need to be discussed. Would the 'addoptive' parents have a leg to stand on if birth parents decided they wanted the baby back in 6 months?

Yes the child in question may have issues because of this when she's older. Or then again she may not. There are lots of things that may cause a child to have issues when they are older. Social services can't interfere every time they think a parent is making a decision that may cause issues later.

The mother may not be in the best mental health - and if I was a close friend i would certainly be advising her to see her GP/get some counselling. But TBH that isn't Social Services job. Social services aren't there to check that new parents are making the right decisions and that the parents possibly being in a bad state of mind isn't making them make decisions that they wouldn't otherwise make. Social services job is to intervene in issues where a child needs protecting. In this situation there is no suggestion that the child is in any danger or at any risk or that she is not being adequately cared for. Even if mum was found not to be in very sound mind, what could social services do? Well they could in theory issue care proceedings - except they couldn't because the child is being adequately and appropriately cared for, and in any case if they were to issue care proceedings they would be expected to look for a family placement for the child. And one has already been found.

I mentioned private fostering guidelines not because they apply to temporary placements but becasue legally any placement of a child with a family member or friend by the child's parents, has to be assessed to make sure it is safe for that child (ie that the parents aren't just giving their child away to anyone), but placements of children with grandparents/aunts/uncles are exempt from this.

So - social services has no concerns about the child's welfare or safety, which is what their job is. they have no pwer to assess the placement with aunt and uncle and no power to make mum have a psychological assessment. They have no power to bring the baby back home to her parents and even if they could what good would that do. Even if mum was found to be in less than good mental health - what could social services do about it?

I'm sorry but I really don't see what social services could be expected to do. As for what would happen if birth parents changed their minds - that would depend what the legal status of the aunt and uncle was. Really they need to make sure they have some order in place to give them some security but this isn't something that social services could do or would be involved in. It's a private legal matter and they need to see a solicitor.