H wants to move to SA. AIBU?

Was there always a plan that you would be moving to SA at some point? Have you always known he wanted to move back there, or is this out of the blue?

Personally I don't think it is wise to move to another country together unless your relationship is very solid. I cannot see how the stress of moving would be good ina relationship where you are already unhappy. It is not at all reasnable for him to essentially be making the decision that he wants to move there and expect you to go along with it.

However, I can also see how if that is his home country he would miss it/want to be there.

L
xx

What a tricky one. I'm pretty much agree with Lois.

I have to say, I find the idea of bringing up children in SA quite appealing- But I must emphasis that is as someone who knows little about the country. I would not, however, entertain doing so in J'burg as the appeal really is the wildness, the nature, the outdoor lifestyle, the quality of life etc etc which would, as you say be severly restricted in j burg for security reasons.

It really doesn't sound as if its right for you at the moment but i think you need to find out whether this is his eventual intention, because you may need to do some serious talking if he feels it is whereas you've never entertained it.

I have to stress, I can be a bit of a loose cannon and am always "running away" rather than dealing with difficult things, so I can 100% see why your husband suddenly wants to do this (who wants to struggle to look for a job in the UK now?) and TBH, its not always a bad trait because some things are easily run-away-able and you will be better off doing so -for example sitting and worrying in the uK when there is a job on offer in SA.

I think I would also worry about choosing to reside in such a volitile region, but that really is purely as I've always lived in the UK and its quite hard to imagine living in Africa.I would also worry about the expense of health care and so on, and all the other benefits we take forgranted in this country.

I'd like to put some perspective on this from a woman who has moved to her husbands home country. Admitedly, Denmark is not in the same league as SA when it comes to security issues (or weather for that matter ?).

We discussed moving to Denmark over a number of years, and it was probably always on the cards, but no matter how much you prepare and discuss this, the actually moving and settling in is amazinging hard and stressful. I was incredibly lonely here when we first moved, and whereas my husband had his work to keep him busy, all I had was the housework and TV. I quickly became homesick, angry and I'm not afraid to admit, resentful of my husband. I didn't blame him for the move, but I felt a bit steamrolled with it all...although we had both agreed on the move. After a couple of months though, I started making friends here and it's amazing how close those friendships have become in such a short period of time. But then we are all expats in this country so our experiences are very much shared.

Another thing, which may not be obvious is the language difference. You have the benefit that in SA they speak english, but what kind of expectation would there be on you to learn Afrikaans once you've arrived? Are there language schools to help you with that? Here, I attend Danish school to learn the language as whilst english is widely spoken, to be able to live a full live, Danish is a must.

What I urge you is not to be pushed into this move. H and I had a discussion only this lunch about whether I wanted to move back to Guernsey. In all honesty, some days I do and some days I'm quite happy here. I think the days when I'm happy are now outweighing the unhappy days, but I still get the ups and downs. I said to H that I considered that we should stay here for at least 2 years so that we can say we've given it a good go, at least then I would have made a good go at learning the language, hopefully have found a job and therefore be more settled in life. Although, I've no doubt that if I turned round to him tomorrow and said I want to go back, he'd back me 100%

I know I've waffled on a bit, but what I'm trying to get across is that moving house is stressful, moving country can be close to a dealbreaker on the best of marriages.

? I'm South African and lived in Jo'burg most of my life.

It is a very tricky situation. I can see why your H wants to go back, and I can imagine that it is important to him that your children spend time there. I also think that the experience of living in another country would probably be good for you and your children.

In terms of how your life would be, would you be working? If so, you would find it very quick to make friends - and indeed if not, quite a lot of SA women are "ladies who lunch" and SAns are incredibly friendly, sociable and welcoming generally. You'd also almost certianly havew FT domestic help.

Crime is an issue, there's no doubt about that. But I imagine you'd be living in some sort of gated development and they really are pretty secure and your kids can play outside unsupervised with no problems when they're a bit older.

All that said, it sounds a bit like it could be the last straw for your marriage, and that's not a good thing.

?

Wifeylind, in Jo'burg there's no need for Afrikaans (or indeed any other of the 11 official languages!) at all. If they'd be living in Pretoria or in the countryside it would be different but Joburg is very English.

From the point of view of being an 'expat child' and seeing my mum adjust to different countries and situations, I think that your concerns are valid. I think that being in an unknown country with your husband out at work all day can be isolating and hard. I also think that your kids would probably benefit more from it when they are a little older. Would you have contacts through your H - inlaws or couple friends - who would be supportive?

What are the exams that you will miss? Is there any way you could come back for them?

I was born and raised in SA, moved to London when I was 22 and came back to SA at 32 with a 4 month old.. We've been back for about 2.5 years and our 4 month old is almost 3 and we have a nearly 1 year old.

Whereabouts do you think you'd move to? We are in Port Elizabeth, on the coast.

Is you OH guaranteed a job? The job market is very tough here at the moment, like most places, and even more so for white males, unless they are well skilled.

I doubt you would have an armed guard, more like armed response, should your alarm be triggered.

Are your kids of school going age? Schooling is paid for but you get excellent government schools (cheaper) as well as private schools (more expensive!).

As someone pointed out, medical aid can be pricey here, but you get a good level of care.

The hardest thing about moving to a new place, especially with kids, is the lack of support network. If you have decent support within your OH's family, that would help as a start. And as Sophie said, you would most definitely have a maid! We have a maid twice a week and it is wonderful, can't remember how I coped in London, but then again, we lived in a 1 bed flat and now we have a 3 bed house with a big garden, in a secure complex. Having kids is a great way to meet other mothers too, which is a start to meeting new friends.

When we moved back here, I didn't have any friends left in the area so I started again. I joined a play group and from there started a new group of friends.

The property market is pretty bad here at the moment, which makes it great for buyers, and the interest rate is starting to fall now. (it is currently 14%!)

Our daycare is run by an ex-nurse from Birmingham. She and her husband have emigrated here and bought a nursery school from a lady who has run it from her home for the last 30 years. They've bought the 3 bed house with pool and garden in the deal (and the nursery is run from buiilt on premises in the back of the property.) She is loving the move and speaks NO afrikaans, even though there are some afrikaans families at the school. All of her staff are black and they speak Xhosa but most of the people you'll come across in SA speak English anyway.

Anyway, that was a bit of a ramble ?. If you have any specific questions, please feel free to ask on the boards or pm me.

Good luck with the decision. I hope you can both come to a conclusion you are happy with together.

Randy (in sunny and hot SA. ?)

Honestly? If I were in your situation, I couldn't and wouldn't go. You sound pretty much dead set against it tbh which I completely understand - can you think of anything at all that would sway you?

I'm married to a South African too. I absolutely adore the country and would move there tomorrow if I was rich enough to buy outright and join the ladies who lunch brigade. My female in-laws go from tennis class to lunch date and then back to their lovely big houses which are kept spotless by the maid. The armed response you mention (I seriously doubt if it's an armed guard) isn't intimidating. My MIL explained it as something they've never actually had to use but if they didn't have it (thus displaying signs on their gate) they'd be the only house in the street without it and that would make them the vulnerable ones and a more likely target.

That said, if you really don't want to go then none of the above is going to sway you. I can see why your husband wants to do it but the reality is that you'd be leaving your home and friends behind and that can be isolating, no matter how friendly the South Africans are.

Would you be up for giving it a trial period maybe of a few months with an agreement between the two of you that you would return to the UK if either of you felt it wasn't working?

I think with young children, if this were me I'd put my foot down and say no.

As you've probably found out yourself, having young children can be tremendously isolating. I've certainly found it so, and that's with my parents/sister/friends all round me. I can't imagine how difficult it would be to have to cope with that isolation and not have any support. If your marriage is under strain anyway, and there's nothing like money worries and babies to cause cracks in even the strongest relationship, add those into being thousands of miles away from your support network...

But then I don't know the country. I'm sure it's wonderful and it'd be a great place to raise your children. But now I have children I couldn't and wouldn't leave my family and friends. Simple as that.

?

I am the child of parents who packed up all their worldly goods to move to SA when I was 2 years old. It was only meant to Be for a few years but they loved it so much we ended up staying until I was 15. I loved growing up there and thank them for giving me the chance to grow up in such a beautiful country. My mum said she found it very hard to start with but she soon got into the SA way of life and her family used to love coming over to visit. We lived in a place called Kloof (sort of near Durban) so we were lucky enough to be near the coast . My parents never did manage to learn Afrikaans (or Zulu for that matter) and they never had any problems because of it.

That aside, I am really close to my family and I would hate to move away from my parents and my sister, but then if it is just for a few years.....

Why would you not be able to take your exams? Is this something you could work around (eg applying to take them abroad)?

We moved abroad (to Belgium) for two years for my husband's career- it was a joint decision and yet there were still times I found it very hard and resented the things I'd given up in order to support him. SA is obviously a very different prospect- to my mind it has many more positives but also more negatives, or at least more profound adjustments. Like you, I would find it hard to adjust to the level of security you'd need. On the other hand, I think doing something new and taking a leap into the unknown can be a hugely beneficial thing to do- if you had any inclination to go at all, I would encourage you to jump at the chance. It doesn't have to be forever. Also, meeting people can be relatively easy with young children- I expect there are the same sorts of groups etc in SA as you get here.

However, there is one point that comes out of your post very strongly and that is that you do not want to go. Because of this, I would really give it a lot of thought, especially because your relationship is not at its strongest at the moment. Moving to a new country is stressful and hard, even when its a success. I can only imagine that going against your will would be disasterous.

If I were you, I'd be going nowhere until the marriage was back on track. Only then would I even consider it. Like you, I had two under two with no nearby support whatsoever. My PIL are both in their 80s and if anything, they need my help, rather than being able to help me. My SIL and her husband live nearby but they both work full-time, so apart from the occasional night's babysitting, there's not a lot they could/can do to help either. I understand the terrible strain that having two small children, so close in age, put on a marriage, so I can imagine what you mean when you say your relationship isn't particularly strong at the moment.

I think the move to another country would just add to the strain and I can imagine the isolation you must be fearing. It's totally understandable. So no, you're not being unreasonable.

As I said, I'd be going nowhere unless the marriage was back on track, and only then would I even consider it.

Hi Magnolia,

Have a virtual ?

Think everyone's said valid things. I can tell you don't want to go (at the moment)

If someone tries to make me do something I naturally dig my heels in.

He sounds like with the loss of his job (I bet he hates our weather too!) he feels trapped and homesick (I always want to go home when I'm down - and home for me is only 30 miles away!)

If there are options here, out of fairness he really ought to look at these options.

Missing out on completing an MBA may be something he'll regret and will be a lost opportunity. Perhaps the compromise is he takes one of the UK jobs for a couple of years, completes his MBA and then revisit the option of going back to SA when your children are older and less demanding.

Would there be an option for a visit for you all during this time to do a reccy - sometimes when we don't know something we only listen to negatives to back up our natural doubts.

What exams are you looking to complete? If he'll give this a breathing space, he'll get his MBA and you'll get your exams completed.

When I get so I can't think any more (being very heart-led I do have a tendency to jump too quickly) I make a list of pro's and con's (you could start by using what everyone's said in the thread). Do this over one day and leave the list.

The next day look at the list and you'll see any dealbreaker(s). Again make a pro's and con's list for each of these and base your discussion with your OH on these lists - see if OH can come up with a list too - if he's feeling in a state he'll probably only be able to see pro's for SA, as at the moment it seems he can't see anything here. Is there any chance that you can have your little ones looked after for a weekend so that you can both discuss this without having the distraction of looking after them?

I've got friends (he's from Joburg) and I know that they had exactly the same sort of issues that you are currently facing. He was like a caged lion and this caused no end of rows.

Has he got any SA friends here? Have they got wives you can talk to? My friend's OH did like to go out a lot without her and she was worried that he would do this even more when he was in SA.

She didn't go with him (because of her babies) but suggested he went on a preliminary visit to check things out - she wanted him to take responsibility for looking into schools, houses etc etc. She asked him to video everything. She didn't go with him because of the kids and the cost, but he came back and he stayed here. Think his memory of what it was like was different to reality.

HTH.