Has anyone else been asked to sign a pre-nup?

Arrgghh! I hadn't considered this! I suppose you're right. I was secretly hoping the ostrich technique would work and he would just not mention it again....

I definitely wouldn't leave it.

For what it's worth, my OH and his dad have a multi-million pound business. I don't know what will happen other than this will one day be his inheritance. I assume that as his wife me and any future kids would have some claim to it legally (perhaps not ethically or morally) but we have never discussed it. As far as I am concerned, his business/inheritance = his money/property, not mine. There may be paperwork in place to protect it, I don't know. It wouldn't offend me if there was. But if he had asked me to sign something on the way to our do I would have been pretty stunned and wondered why he hadn't brought this up at a more rational moment and had a thorough discussion with me, explaining his reasons properly.

OH put up all the money for our house deposit, yet we have a 50/50 share in it. I did ask him if he wanted to outline on paperwork that he technically owned a higher percentage than me, but he was adamant we have an equal share. If he had have said opposite that would have been fine by me, it is rightfully more his. But it meant a lot to me that he wanted us to be equal, he was prepared to give all his money to it and didn't mind that I had zilch to give.

I really do think you need to sort it out in your own mind and with your partner if you think this could be a dealbreaker.

Thanks Chickster, yes he was a total twonk but the upside is, I stayed in the area and met someone nice who I am marrying in April :-) Anyway, I'm going to be strict now and say enough with the ostrich stuff,lol - you do need to sort this before you get wed ! Now it's out there,it's not going away- tell him how you feel about it and ask him what his reasons are. I'm hoping you can come to some arrangement that you're both happy with x

I see the Pre nup as something worth having if you have assest to protect.Had I owned property prior to meeting MrMini I would have fought tooth and nail to keep it.

We both came to our relationship with nothing but that dosnt stop me still being fiercely financially independant and if i had have had any assests then I would have wanted them protected.

Its not cynical, its sensible. Sadly we arnt all Disney princess and destined to live happy every after. People and relationships change.

The only thing you should sign should be the Wedding Register,as this would show commitment to each other. If your other half cannot accept that...run !

James

Tell that to someone whose spouse has cheated on them.

Steady on Mini no need to be so sarky,am just an old fashioned romantic myself

?

Welcome to Hitched!

If that's classed as sarky it's a good job Trickers ain't about!

Im probably going to be called a bully again *weeps into glass of rose*

Me and Mr R drew up a Declaration of Trust when I added my name to the mortgage, it basically states that Mr R's deposit will not go to me if we have to sell the house but the equity is split equally. Mr R inherited a large amount of money when his Grandad passed away and we both felt it was right that this money stay with him. Our solicitor did say though, as other people have said, that despite us having this document drawn up, if we were to split up and sell the house, and i decided to be a b*tch about it and try to get half the deposit, it's not 100% foolproof, e.g. if we had children then i could argue that i needed the house for the kids etc. And also once we get married the document is void. Nice little £700 we spent on that document to last only a few years!

Chickster - have you got a date set as yet? That may have an affect.

Really interesting thread. I am actually a divorce lawyer so deal with and draft pre and post-nuptials - and they are really not simple agreements.

There are also various implications that most people are not aware of of, and most people do not even realise the financial implications of marriage/divorce until they start the process

I advise people to have them all the time, for various reasons, but being completely frank I think I would have been devastated had hubby asked me for one. The cynic in me who has been doing my job for a few years now would advise to have one, but the romantic part of me would have been devastated to ask for one!

There are a few points I'd make here -

Marriages sometimes end. Not just because of domestic violence, or alcohol misuse or adultery, sometimes two ordinary people no longer make each other happy and they don't want to waste their lives being in an unhappy marriage because of some misplaced belief that a divorce is a personal failure. Anyway, marriages end. People rarely shower themselves in glory or remember to be the bigger person at times like these, sometimes things get nasty - if someone felt that having a prenup would protect them in this situation, then why not?

I personally don't think a prenup would protect you against much - if a court thinks it's unfair, it will overthrow it. I wouldn't bother with one, but then I have no real problem with the principle.

Also, to suggest that by signing a prenuptial agreement somehow your partner will avoid the legal responsibilities associated with fathering a child is unlikely I feel, which is the argument some people have put forward. If you have children, I'm pretty sure any type of prenuptial agreement won't be worth the paper it's written on.

Chickster, I do think that you should speak to an independent solicitor who you have paid for to advise you.

Aww Chicksty you poor love. Not a great situation. Could've guessed this would be a contentious thread! I'm sadly not as patient as you, if I've got something on my mind or something's bothering me I have to have it out! I'm afraid that I agree with the others in that you should really broach this topic again with him.

What does he do for a living? I'm wondering if perhaps his thoughts about a prenup are just his business-head thinking "oh that's a logical way of protecting ourselves" and he's not even thinking about what it means emotionally or relationship-aly!

I'm always getting upset at things my OH says that he hasn't even thought about properly or doesn't mean!

(oh and whereabouts in the centre of town are you? I lived in Montpellier for years and my family are in Charlton Kings I moved to London two years ago but the OH and I'll be heading back to Cheltenham for our 'forever home' in another year or two)

OK, my take on this. I DID ask my ex husband to sign a pre-nup. At the time, I was 27, owned my own house (as far as banks were concerned, it was owned outright, no mortgage) and future-wise, always stood to have a large inheritance. He was 45, divorced with kids he didn't see, renting a small flat and with parents on govt pension living in a council flat. I always said that I was just protecting myself and my family, and often used the quote "just because a ship has lifeboats, you don't expect it to sink". The prenup was my lifeboat. When we divorced, as it happened, he claimed nothing from me although I did end up with some of his debts.

Now, I am remarried to someone I've been with for many years. We've known each other when I was penniless paying off ex-H's debts and when he was paying off some cards as well. As long as we've been serious about each other, we've never even stressed about money. Whoever has it at the time, pays. We bought a house last year and legally are joint tenants rather than tenants-in-common, so even though OH contributes more, the house would be 50:50. It would be very, very easy for people to say that I haven't asked for a pre-nup this time since this time I am the "lesser partner" but that's not true. As it happens, we've never even thought about it and it wouldn't enter our minds. In fact, whereas he earns so much more, I am the one with savings and investments now, plus the other house, and future inheritance, whereas all he has is his current earnings.

I think deep down, subconsciously I had doubts about the first marriage, and none about this.

A cautionary tale though - a good friend of mine moved in with her boyfriend 9yrs ago. He never offered to put her on his mortgage because it was his house. 2yrs later, they moved house. Choosing the new house always seemed down to him, regardless of her preferences. She asked to be on this mortgage and he refused. It took her 2yrs to even get him to agree to have some document drawn up that would give her something, anything in case of a split. She never really felt an equal partner in the relationship, nothing was shared, and they split up last year.

I really do think now, especially that I'm older and supposedly wiser, that everything needs to be shared on a practical and emotional level if not with bank accounts. We have salaries paid into different accounts but practically it's irrelevant - he can spend "my" money and I can spend his. I'd get very upset now about mention of a prenup, quite possibly because as I said above, it would remind me of the doubts I think I was feeling myself.

Wow, Montpellier is gorgeous! I live on the edge of Fairview / Pittville and I really love it here! I felt immediately at home when I moved to Chelters ?

Hi Barefoot - thanks for your comments, it is a very interesting view on things. I'm just still so surprised that my OH brought it up as we are both usually quite level headed around money and we have a very close, emotional, loving relationship and stuff like pre-nups just didn't occur to me.

I need to face reality and have a good chat with him.

And yes - I agree with everyone that his timing was totally crap (!) but I just think it was one of those useless bloke moments when something pops into their head and they just blurt it out! He wouldn't do something like that deliberately.

Yes - 30th of August 2013 - why would this have an affect? x x x

Like others have said I would try and find out his reasoning.

Personally after studying pre-nups ALOT this year in my law degree, I don't believe that they are worth the paper they are written on! A court would easily throw it out if you could prove it was unfair. the law surrounding pre-nups is so uncertain still even after previous case stated in page 1 of this discussion. They still have NO effect in UK law.

I would be totally thrown by being asked this, and not happy at all.

Definately talk to him!

I wouldn't be happy at all. Marriage is about joining you together both spiritually and legally - if I didn't want to share what I've got with my OH then I wouldn't legally bind myself to him in the first place. Very much agree with the 'what's mine is his, what's his is mine' statements. When we first moved in together OH was at university and as I had the higher wage cI therefore ontributed more - now I have a lower wage and whilst generally we're 50/50, if needs be he supports me too. It's how a relationship should be, share and share alike. And if we split, things should be split fairly. Or does he think you're a gold-digger who would want cuts in his inheritance?!

I would seriously be questioning the relationship if he asked me to sign a PN, I'd be thinking he had doubts and expected the whole thing to fail. Would NOT be impressed about it being on the way to our engagement party, either. Complete disregard for your feelings. xx

My OH seems to think that inherited money is out of the scope of splitting up division of assets, although he thinks it would be reasonable for an ex-spouse to provide an allowance off the proceeds if it earned mega interest for example. He's read about this somewhere and it sounds like you probably need the cash for the legal fees to sort this out mind you!!

I can see both sides for the pre-nup to be honest, but agree his timing could be better! I guess if I was asked to sign one and it had reasonable terms that didn't leave me to starve if things went wrong I would do it. There's not much point OH and I having one as we came in with half & anything earned since is ours so essentially half anyway.

I do believe in marriage for life and I really believe that will be the case, but if you'd asked me 5 years ago then I would have been more sceptical so don't necessarily agree that planning for the worst case means you expect failure.

Wow!

You lot can't half yap.

Speak to your OH, if it's not a *dealbreaker* to you, sign the effing thing and move on with the rest of your wedding/life.

It's rather quite simple, if you want it to be.

Hi Chickster

Is the wedding is very close, having a pre-nup can be complete waste of time as one party could claim they were pressured to sign it because the wedding was so close, eg those scenarios where everything is booked, wedding very soon and then the OH springs an agreement on you saying "sign this or wedding off!" But Aug 2013 would not come under that category.

I get quite a few enquiries from calling me close to the weddings wanting a pre-nup drawn up a couple of weeks before the wedding and always refuse.

Other thing I would say (obviously) is do not take legal advice from anybody who isn't a specialist family solicitor - this is the place for emotional and practical advice - definitely not legal!

Do in your heart what's feels right for you and your hubby to be. I am sure he probably didn't even think about it and would be devastated to know he had upset you - and that's my professional opinion!

C

X

.

Thanks JoJo, it's interesting to hear the opinion of someone who's signed one x x x

I'm sorry I'm in the camp of not liking the situation at all. Yes I can see the argument for having one, but maybe naively we live by 'what's mine is yours and yours mine'. What if circumstances beyond anyone's control arise? Who's to say its only him that can lose out? For an example, me and H both entered into marriage with full time jobs, our own money and own house each but due to medical complications I have had to give up work. If we split now, with a prenup I would be screwed. Yes he's helping out with 'my house' and I have access to 'his' money, but I contribute to the marriage in many other ways than just financially. Prenups don't take that into account.

ETA it works both ways. He may end up destitute who's to know what may happen. Would he be so keen to sign one himself?

I'm also in the camp of not liking the idea of a pre-nup, even if it's not legally binding here in the UK. Even putting aside the whole 'planning for failure' aspect of it, I don't think it would be fair to say that when splitting up, the fair thing to do would be to split everything according to who had mroe before the marriage, or anything like that.

When Ant and I get married, we are planning to start a family. Yes, his salary is 3x mine, but I'm just starting my career. As we both want children, I will be having to take time away from my career to raise them. And because he earns a good salary, I will probably be able to take more time than I would have otherwise, meaning a good chunk of time taken away from my career, which would result in a significant loss once I return to work. Anthony owns our flat, and has paid off some of the mortgage on it. I'm basically in the same situation as the OP. Say hypothetically that 10 years down the line Anthony and I were to split. If the pre-nup is designed to protect Ant's assets going into the marriage, this would mean that he would keep the house and savings that are allowing us to have a family. And I would be left with no career to support myself, no house, and children to take care of, even with child support, this would be entirely unfair, as the only reason I am willing and able to start a family is because we are financially able to do it!

I'm so glad Barefoot Beach Bride commented, because it really does go to show that thinking of signing a pre-nup does hint at underlying doubts, even if very tiny ones. You don't plan for failure if you believe your committment is for life. I would much rather be naive and idealistic than think that Anthony had doubts about us getting married.

Pre-nups aren't simply designed to itemise assets and who gets what back if a split happens. They are designed to cover things like provisions for children, they take into account "compensation" for non-financial input into a family home and/or work.

No court worth it's name would uphold a pre-nup that left a primary carer without a family house (if there is one to be quibbled over).