Help clear up an argument?

To follow from above, I'm not sure he should be thinking he's alpha male anyway

This is quite interesting as we recently got a dog and during puppy training classes and from what we have read on dog training a dog should always know who the master is. We have been told that when we feed Murphy we should on occasion put his food down and take it away from him again before he has finished eating to teach him to share, and not be aggressive when it comes to food/ anything else. It seems a bit mean but a happy dog always knows their place, he does need to know your hsuband/ youi are his masters, so based on what i have been told in the recent weeks your hubbie was in the right to shout at the dog. It is bad if they ever growl at you. I don;t think a smack on the nose will have done Ray any harm, but will have probably been a shock if it's never happened to him before, it as far as i have been told/ experienced is good to scold/ smack a dog if it is within seconds of it doing something worng, but leave it more than a few seconds and it wont understand what you are telling it off for.

It's important to me that I am the boss at all times and if I want him to leave a bone or his kong he needs to do it. Him growling is him telling you to bugger off and leave him alone, that's not something I'd have from bubba especially as he is much bigger than Ray. I could give bubba the juiciest bone ever and he would always drop if I say leave albeit reluctantly. I'd never just try to take it off him as he probably would get protective.

I know, I was just using that as a figue of speech, he knows he ins't.

Aww poor Ray not eating his tea has he perked up now?

I think it was the manner in which H tried to take if off him too. Had he said "leave it" "drop it" then maybe Ray would have responded differently.

OB he'll be fine today I'm sure.

This is a very good point. Although I agree it was natural doggie behaviour there is nothing wrong with Ray knowing you're boss. However just by trying to take the food especially if it's not happened before I think his reaction is understandable. As someone said above it is good to traint hem by putting food down and taking it away. However this needs training and I would start with dinner as it's less high value then work up to treats if this is what you want. I quite happily stick my hand inside Rosco's mouth to take something out and he is a giant breed but when we first rescued him we started slow by training the leave and wait commands. I also stopped him eating but by putting somehting in the way (not my hand) so if he reacted badly I wouldn't have been hurt.

Also this may not be the case but how does he react if you're H takes other things off him? It may be possible that he sees the pack order as you, him, your H. So this reaction was beacue someone 'lower' than him wanted his treat. My OH and I make sure we both train Rosco so he is below both of us. Sorry if this isn't the case!

Ray loves tissue and every chance he gets he'll pick it up in his mouth and I've lost count of the amount of times H and I have had to prize his mouth open and take the tissue out, I've had my full fist in his mouth quite a few times, not once has he tried to bite he's never even growled, I really think it was the way H did it. I never tried the training with taking the food away from him because he's such a fussy eater and he doesn't seem arsed about food. If I distubed him eating the chances are he wouldn't go back to it.

He got it off me in secret ?

I agree with his reasoning but not his method.

I do think it's good for dogs to learn that they should give food up when requested but barreling in like he did was cack handed.

My dog would have growled but I have prized things from her mouth on occasion. To be fair,most food she would leave if I really requested her to, except maybe chicken or cheese. They are like crack to her!

I also see it both ways. I would like to be able to take something from my dog (it could be something poisonous or dangerous) without fear of getting bitten.

But to play have-the-food-no-don't-have-the-food-it's-mine is mean and not really a valid training exercise in my view.

Ideally a dog should drop whatever it has in its mouth on command but if Ray hasn't been taught this then of course he will growl, especially over food they seem more territorial about that. Either way no one should ever hit a dog so yes your H was totally in the wrong there I'm afraid.

Hope Ray is ok and perked up. Jasper goes a bit sulky if H and I raise voices and sulks in the corner, he is a sensitive soul bless him.

I agree about the hitting Bea.

He'll be fine today, going to take him on an extra long walk round the park tonight to make up for it. Actually since I am full of cold H can do, and it's peeing down too! Pay back! ?

Hopefully ray will have a big poo

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He has at least 2 poos per walk, but I hope tonights are slimers!!! Try picking those up in the rain! ?

Why should you never hit a dog? Assuming we're not talking about beating here, wouldn't dogs normally expect (in an instinctive way) a certain level of aggression from their leaders? A nip on the rump, a scruffing, and so on. Given that we are unlikely to start biting our dogs, a tap on the nose/head/bum seems reasonable?