HIB - Question...

I went to a friends wedding and couldnt bear the poses the photographer was getting everyone to do...

"look up at the sky but turn your eyes slightly down"

"gaze into eachother's eyes without smiling"

"bride look to the left and groom lovingly stroke a hair from her cheek" etc etc you get the pic!! (excuse the pun there!)

and getting the bridesmaids to point up at imaginary planes etc

But in the evening the same photographer quitely made his way round the room ,hid behind plant pots and stood in the corner snapping the most gorgeous natural shots of people when they didnt know and they were fab! What a shame he didnt do that for the day ones..

I think getting people in these poses in front of an audience makes them self concious and it shows in the pics..

But that is just my opinion!!

Before you pass judgement - you need to know what was said between the B&G and the photographer. They may have decided beforehand that thats what they wanted

I personally can't stand seeing photographers manhandle people (which is the alternative) I personally make a rule of never touching anyone I am photographing at a wedding or in the studio, however I might (with permission) have my female assistant straighten a neclace/tie or touch up some makeup etc..

There are ways of "instructing people" that range from "do this, do that" through to "Imagine you are on the bow of the titanic, looking up at the sky with your arms out with the wind in your hair". Every photogrpaher finds thier own way on this, for me the latter method produces a more natural result. In saying that we also pose only a very few shots per wedding

For me many posed shots look quite awkward and mechanical, however, sometimes, its the best way of getting the desited result

I was asked for my opinion im not passing judgement!!

and the conversation between the bride and groom and photographer went along the lines of we would like natural photos, not awkwardly posed ones.......they were not happy with his 'style' or end result because of this

Ah

in that case, we all agree ?

A really good chat before the wedding allways helps avoid this one - it a shame - because as you eluded - what he did in the evening was a little bit more like what the B&G wanted. One thing I have noticed is that with some couples, you almost do have to activley push them together, because (for reasons I dont get) the groom seems to grab a beer and go one way, and the bride another, for most of the hour or so after the wedding

mmmm i can see that happening with me for most of th evening!

Well if you want "natural couple shots", you do have to "be together" Grin?

Richard you should have mail.?

Hi Richard....also check the typo in your banner.....a very important word is missing a "D"

?

Peter

My personal peeve was observed when I was a guest at a wedding. The photographer spent more time complaining about guests with cameras than getting on with his job..(My camera was deliberately left at home)

if "uncle Bob" wants to shoot over my shoulder, as long as he doesn't distract the couple, I don't care. If I can't outshoot him, I shouldn't be in the trade.

Totally agree with you there!

Thanks for your feedback so far... I'd really like B2B's opinions AND you passing judgments (because this is what happens in the real world!). I want to know what really gets your goat, what puts you off using them and what they could do better!

Does anyone else want chip in with your thoughts?

Obviously not a B2B but this is something I hear now and again:

People dont like a photographer who just talks badly about every one else puts across that they are the only good photographers around.

I always work on the sense that if you cant say anything good then dont say anything at all, if you need to bad mouth everyone else then it screams with signs of desperation.

I hate it when photographers block the amateurs on purpose - there's no need. I went to a wedding once where the official tog took his group shot then invited all the others to come and snap before setting up the next one. It was great, the tog even suggested alternative angle to the amateurs.

Oh and I really don't like the arty-farty posed shots. My friend had one of her and her hubby on a staircase - with about 10 yards between them because the tog was more interested in getting the staircase in at a weird angle. They just got married - they should be standing together!

But we will have about 6 professional photographers at our wedding (my OH is a photographer too!) as well as an official tog - so we should get some decent shots.

I have been a guest at a couple of weddings where I felt bossed around by impatient togs. I know that they are trying to get lots of group shots done in a short space of time but there is no need to be rude about it! I tend to leave my crystal ball at home when going to a wedding, therefore I can't be expected to instinctively know exactly where I should stand.

The best ones I have seen have been much better at communicating with everyone, that way they've been able to work quickly but not pee everybody off at the same time.

I feel that some photographers seem to work from an A-Z handbook of poses rather than going for more candid/unique shots i.e -

A - Group Shot

B - Gazing into each others eyes

C - Ring shots

D - Cake shot

I know most B&G's like those shots, including me but what would be nice is to have them a little less staged...

Havent seen any emails yet ?

This may sound weird but my sister had the most perverted Videographer on her wedding day! I didnt feel comfortable around him at all, there was inapprpriate conversation and he was far too tactile! I understand that there has to be arelationship between the photgrapher adn the guests but i think he was too much!

I also HATE photographers who have no patience for chirdren in group shots! Children are a massive part of our families and its essential that the photgrapher includes them in the day adn understands that unlike adults they dont stand and smile on cue!! I've heard one say (at a friends wedding) "damn kids wont keep still"....hmmmm yeah they tend not to do that, they're KIDS!

Ok thats all for me

I've only really been to one wedding and the thing that annoyed me about their TOG was his attitude to the kids. The couple have three adorable little nephews and their dad was one of the ushers. Well the middle nephew (about 4 years old at the time I think) had been missing his dad all day while he was off being an usher and wanted to see him! Every time he ran into shot, the TOG got really huffy about it! In actual fact, the best photo of the day turned out to be one of the bride and groom with the ushers and the little lad peeking out from behind a plantpot next to them! It was a gorgeous little touch, and the couple weren't even slightly annoyed about the kid running about so I don't get the TOG's attitude at all.

These are my peevs.

1. Asking guys to wear cheap sunglasses (works if you are ZZ top) everyone else (especially dads) look stupid.

2. Getting the guys to button their jackets when they are wearing waistcoats etc.

3. The reservoir dogs shot. Its been done a squillion times.

4. Throwing top hats in the air.

(OK those ones were from my HIB me and not my g2b me)

1. Bullying. Lot's of togs I talked to wanted to advise me like a father figure and generally intimidate. I have seen this a few times at weddings and to be honest I have no idea how couples put up with it.

2. Lack of enthusiasm. Some togs I spoke to just could not be arsed. Like they had seen everything and done everything and my wedding was not that original (which it is to me).

3. The same boring images. When you search togs online. 90% of wedding togs have the same types of images. Pretty dull really.

4. I have seen images online in a togs gallery which are rubbish. Now if these are the images you select to sell your services, what are my ones going to look like?

5. Togs who do not know the important members of the family. I have seen this a few times. Surely it is a togs job to know who the MOB is or the MOG or FOG etc? I have seen Togs having a good old moan about the wedding only to find out it was the FOG who they were moaning to.

6 Making sure that people are looking in the right direction (if they are supposed to be looking in the right direction). There is no point taking a group shot with 9 out of ten people looking at the camera.

7. my biggest gripe is professionalism. If you have an enquiry, answer it promptly and proffessionaly. If you are at a wedding don't moan about anything to guests. Do not be confrontational with guests and most of all look professional.

Over than that, i am not fussed.

I've got the giggles now as a result of all the togs, mogs and fogs!

?As a tailor, I guess you wouldn't like this shot!!!!!!?

Trouble is that "some" older style shots are still wanted by some clients.(Not necessarily this one)....That is something that is discussed before the day.

The reservoir dogs shot was popular in its day and requested in advance by many grooms....the common problem was that one of the guys on the day would usually forget to bring his shades,,,,,,,,so guilty....I used to carry a couple of spares....although they were not cheap end.

I'm very specific what I want and went around a few TOG's 'till I knew they would be flexible enough to do what I want. I want all B&W shots, none of registry office ceremony, just when I'm coming out with confetti etc. No big group shots, I would never look at them again. I want couple shots and all candid and reportage style. Plus it's a small wedding with 42 for the full day so everyone will at some point get a photo taken in a non-formal way.

Think JFK & Jackie's wedding.

Also the TOG is going to shoot on film a little for an experiment. Results will be good if it works.

I've told the TOG to photograph us mostly (vain haha). I want candid couple shots of everyone else. I don't want to spend even 1 hour on people standing around waiting for their photo as I don't want them and they won't go in the album.

So onto the things I don't get about wedding photos:

1) Macro shots of shoes and champagne flutes

2) Line up shots where you cannot see peoples faces

That's my most hated things but I did go to a friend's wedding recently where the TOG had the FOB and Bride lying over the hotel bed!! I though that was very strange.

This this thread summarises the issues nicley

Some want creative, artistic - others interpret that as cheesy

Some want tradition and some don't

Some want specific things, some want anything specific at all

Some want unposed natural, some want more formal, and then when a photographer starts to fomalise things, some don't like the way thats done (which ever way you look at it somehow you do need to communicate the idea / pose / instruction to the guests/B&G , who often are not used to being photographed)

Even if the B&G request one thing, which the photographer might be faithfully carrying out - an onlooking guest may be feeling that "this is infuriating for me"

At the end of the day, you (the B&G) need to individually decide what you do like, and go and find a photographer who can deliver it for you and.. us (the photographers) need to understand how to alter what we do to accomadate you

Do you know what - I am surprised if you stuggled at all to find a photographer more than happy to do this, you are asking them to have a very easy day!

- B&W is so easy compared to colour (a lot less work after the event)

- Any pro photographer that cant confidently shoot film shouldn't be trading - its like a racing car driver who couldnt drive a road car

We shoot digital and/or film, and we also (if wanted) provide stunning B&W silver prints done in a darkroom by hand

I sort of agree with this, although will add it in unless requested not to....which a bride I booked a couple of days ago specifically asked for me NOT to do this shot. The image which I have never truly got the raison d'etre of is the bridal dress hanging in plastic on the wardrobe door....To me the dress is best photographed n the bride.

Realistically, these shots are more useful for coffee style albums.

I was a wedding earlier in the week and the TOG was doing table shots. He got the table sat/stood in a group took the picture, then asked for an 'action shot'. All eight of us were looking at each other confused. None of us really got what he was trying to achieve. There was tentative picking up of a wine glass, a reluctant peace sign... So a bit more direction than just saying 'action shot' would have been nice!

Wow, that's a huge comment!... Couldn't disagree more! Maybe the analogy of saying that because an Oil Painter can’t paint Watercolours he shouldn’t be a artist!

Thank you all for your feedback, really interesting thoughts!...

I hate photographers that disappear with the B&G for ages - i know that this is often at the B&G's request but I just hate it. Think it is quite rude personally. Although the only style of wedding photography i do like is complete reportage. Group shoots just grate me and look staged no matter how good the TOG.

My SIL2B went to a wedding where the photographer phoned up the reception venue and told them to delay the meal by 45mins as the B&G wouldnt be there. The B&G knew nothing about this and rightly went mental when they found out.

Well I would also be incredibly suprised if an oil painter couldn't paint with watercolours.. its part of the learning process.. drawing, charcols, oil, paints, acrylics, oils..

Without getting all technical, to shoot film, all you need to consider is

- ISO

- Exposure

- Dynamic range

Thats exactly the same as you need to consider when shooting digital, Its just you don't get the comforter of being able to look at a histogram, or chimp the screen. You also need to pre-choose your ISO & film type for the next 1/12/24/36 shots

For anyone that owns a DSLR who has never shot film, you really should try it... its as simple as picking up a film back that matches your DSLR lenses from E-Bay and loading a film in. The rest is exactly the same. Light is light, optics are optics etc...

If your head says F8 60th/sec and your light meter says F8 60th/sec, then pretty much F8 60th/sec will work on film and digital, on a Blad, A D3, A F3, A Zorkie or anything else

It does depend on the style used by the tog.....although I would admit that far too many do not do group shots well.

One technique is to structure the shot and then create an "environment" where natural things can happen...where the fact the tog is there is forgotten....

Peter

I think that as a wedding professional, you only need to consider one thing first.. What the couple want you to do. If they want to dissapear off for 20 mins - thats up to them, its thier day. If the day is well organised, then as a guest, you will be having a jolly good social time eating canapes etc..

Its not for us as wedding professionals to try to alter the running of the day (unless you are the wedding coordinator/planner). Even so, thats after discussions with the B&G beforehand

Marylou-lou, your idea of shooting your wedding day all in black and white sounds fantastic! I have had brides and grooms that just wanted their guests having fun and photographed candidly and only had formal shots with themselves and immediate family. It worked pretty well.

I haven't yet booked a photographer, but my biggest annoyance while making a list of possibles has been quality/content of portfolios and ease of use of websites.

When I'm looking at the work of a photographer I don't want to see the macro shots they took of some flowers or wine glasses and so on - I want to see their ability to capture moments, facial expressions and the things that made the event unique. I'm sure I might appreciate having the macro object shots of my own wedding, but I don't need a photographer to demonstrate that they are capable of getting these shots. I have a DSLR and I know I can take that shot easily, so I would expect any wedding photographer to take a few of those as a matter of course.

I have found that since I've looked at a few of the suggested supplier listings on venue websites I've found better quality portfolios, but just searching through Google brings up a lot of really underwhelming stuff. I guess that's just how it goes when there are a lot of people out there trying to be professional photographers? I guess that might sound harsh, but if a portfolio is supposed to be your very best work and it's distinctly lacking in composition, quality of image and so on, that can't be a good sign.

Now, websites! I don't want a complicated website to look at photographs. I want it to be very easy to browse all the photos and move between them, as well as accessing any information on the photographers themselves. Fancy websites that get in the way of content with strange slideshows that are hard to control seem to be all too common and make me move on to something else very quickly.

Its a tough one

On the one hand - some couples want details, and yes we do these as a matter of course - yes they are taken, and ultimately, some couples want to see these. Again some couples are like you, and ar driven by emotions and feelings, so a lot of the work photographers do will include these too. Other couples are from a different culture, and formal is the way to go. While that might not rock your boat, it rocks theirs. Different photographers for different couples is probably the way to go.. however a professional should be able to competently do the lot

As for the websites.. that's a hard one too Some couples are looking for something creative and off the map, and others want everything laid out simply. We cant be all things to all people....