I'm not sure I can cope with much more! [bawl]

Oh Alison my lovely, youre really going through the wringer at the moment. xx

I take it that Mr A's company is a big one? Then they will probably get away with it even though what theyre doing is wronger than a wrong thing with wrong written on it. It might be worth cutting your losses and taking the settlement, get Mr A out there trying for new jobs. Im in a v similar situation with Mr WT at the mo except he has handed his resignation in and is looking at a £15k + paycut and a step (or 2) down from the level he is at.

I bet its a lot to take in at the mo for you both, I know its easy for me to say, but keep strong my lovely, and vent on ere as much as you like xx

? I've no useful advice on the job stuff but you sound like you really need a hug.

You will get through this, but it really sucks. I hope someone who does know what they're talking about can help you. x

Oh dear. Nothing is straight forward is it? I think given what you have said, taking their offer and walking away, might the best option? It will only be hanging over your heads for ages, if you kleep fighting. And as WT said, if its a big company, i doubt anything will change tbh.

Hope he has some luck on the job front xx

OMG, don't really know what to say. Sounds like you need a big ?

Also, I completely understand that you need to have all your energy for you and your H right now, and I'm sure your friend will understand too.

It's not that big a company. They're a german company and they're a decent size but not huge.

And that's the thing - at what point do we say something is better than nothing.

What's galling is that 2 others made redundant at the same time have both received settlements and neither of them had the possibility of going to tribunal as they'd been there less than a year. One of them got nearly a 1/3 as much again as what my H has been offered.

Gosh, I have no useful advice to give, apart from to offer a hug and hope that things improve for you soon. Be kind to yourself, you've got so much on your plate right now ?

Big company = big buck lawyers, so I'd say take the compromise agreement and put a line under it and let it be over and one with so that OH can concentrate on getting a new job.

You'll find ways to manage on a lower income and gradually he will build his salary back up.

As for your friend - you can be there for her as a shoulder to cry on, but remember that she can also share some of your worries too. Use each other as sounding boards.

Hope things work out ok for you.

Rx

Can you speak to ACAS about this? Would they be able to help you? What about an employment lawyer? You could get one of those £5 for 30 minutes consultations with some firms.

Thanks all - I just need to let it out and cry as I can't do it in front of my H - it's heartbreaking watching him cry.

I agree with Campergirl - I'd get some advice on whether it's worth taking it any further.

As for your friend, I'm sure she'll understand that you're having a tough time too.

?

Oh Alison, I hate that all of this is happening to you at once, it's totally sucks ? If it's any consolation you do get to the point where you don't care anymore and it makes you very "yeah, yeah, bring it on" ?

I have no legal knowledge at all but all I can say is 8 years ago we had to sue H's company for constructive dismissal and it was a hard slog. I think the worst part is that it stays with you as a cloud that is always there. You can't just make a fresh start and move on because you are in the middle of this battle. Like you, we had a figure in mind (it was very complicated as H had shares) and also like you they played hardball. In the end we settled for a little less than we wanted. H had a cut and dried case, just like you but I'm afraid that it often comes down to 2 things 1) who has the biggest balls and 2) who has the best lawyers/most money, rather than what is right/fair.

I'd say that a first offer is just that and I'd imagine they will up to so it's worth a small fight at least. Personally if it was me and your H got a new job I'd take the offer and move on. I know that's a cowardly approach but often you have to do what keeps you sane and with all other things you have going on I think it could get a bit much. What about going to see a sh!t hot lawyer for some advice? We did this with H and ended up hiring a "rolex wearing rottweiller" as H called him. It was expensive but we only used him for certain things and did some of the stuff on our own to keep the costs down. It was worth it as he did get us more money.

I'm so sorry to hear that you're going through such a tough time at the moment, it sounds as though you really are being a rock for your H and i'm sure that he appreciates it more than ever. Obviously we don't know all the ins and outs of the situation but perhaps if may be better for you both to seriously think about whether you really want to continue with this fight? It sounds as though you're both going through the mill and you have to ask yourselves if a successful outcome is really going to be worth it? How realistic is that you're likely to achieve what you're asking for? Whether it might be better to take the money and run and put the whole sorry situation behind you?

?

I have got a call back coming from a firm of solicitors - they offer a free consultation over the phone. They will also deal with compromise agreements.

We just need to know if we do have enough of a case to fight on. We sent them an e-mail yesterday saying we weren't happy with the figure and telling them why not, but they haven't even acknowledged, never mind respond to so we've no idea where we stand or if the CA is still on the table. We do have a scanned PDF of the CA, which is signed from their end, and it includes £1K towards legal costs.....but presumably if we take up these legal costs we have to accept the CA.

We have legal cover through our house contents insurance but despite them telling us over the phone thus far that we have a strong case, we now have to fill in their forms (yet to arrive in the post) and submit all documentation for them to look through and decide if we have a 51% chance or higher of winning. If they don't think so, they won't take it on.

We can't really afford to spend savings on seeing a lawyer as we're going to need the savings to live on. But I'm kind of thinking maybe we do need to spend a couple of hundred or so just to fully explore everything.

Oh Alsion I can't offer any practical advice, but feel free to let it all out here. I've found Hitched invaluable of late, we really are a great community. Cry away, rant away, we are here for you.

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Oh I'm really sorry, it's such a stressful situation for you both. I have absolutely no law experience so couldn't advise as to the best course of action, but I just wanted to say, hang in there, this too will pass, even though it feels bleak at the moment.

I'm so sorry you're going through this but it sounds like you're being a rock and extremely supportive which is what your H needs. I know what you mean, I find it really hard when men cry too. I would say now that you know their methods and what they are offering, it's worth getting some further advice (if it's free or relatively cheap - i.e. initial consultation) both from your home insurance version and from another source if possible and then decide if it is worth the fight.

Take care and look after each other ??

Thanks all. I just needed to get it all out. I'm now waiting on 2 firms to call me back - might as well get as much free advice as possible eh?

I think I'll go and do the cleaning to take my mind off things - work have let me have 2 days holiday at no notice to try and sort it all.

One thing I've picked up from this and another legal battle we are currently having (fun!) is that each person you speak to will give varying advice so it's a great idea to speak to as many people as possible. If you go and see someone make sure you get an email stating that it's free. We had one Lawyer who sent a bill for £400 for our "free" consultation, swine!

Good luck with it all ?

Alison, you say they've lied on the timeline on the docs etc. Is there any way that you can prove that ie prove that your H was somewhere else on the day they claim to have had a meeting, or show that a letter they claim they sent on a particular day wasn't sent etc?

We've thought about this and we do have witnesses to H having his termination letter when he says he did - btu they are still employees of the company and the other one has already reached a compromise agreement (even though she had no claim on tribunal as she hadn't been there a year) - and she might not be able to act as a witness.

? Alison, it's a nightmare. Are you sure they are lying deliberately - might they not have just got the dates wrong? They sound like such incompetents.

I find it strange that the company have already signed the agreement already. When the firm I work for deals with them we get the employee to sign first and then the company. Does the agreement detail what claims you are compromising?

The £1,000 allowed for costs (which seems a very generous figure in my experience, I've not deal with a company that allows that much) does give you room for a solicitor to negotiate with the company for a higher figure.

I dont think a solicitor can really comment on the agreement until they actually see it. It would be worth in my opinion making an appointment with a solicitor (after checking their hourly rate and costs) for just a quick run through of the agreement and advise you on your best case.

Sophie - they're lying deliberately. They realised in the appeal hearing that the guy K who ran the "consultation" meeting had messed up - my H is still mates with the ex head of UK office, R, and R has heard from Germany that the office in Germany are furious with K for messing it all up.

All of the lying is to cover their backs. They know they've done wrong. We went through everything again last night and they contradict themselves at every turn - right from the very start.

I just spoke to one of the law firms and she agrees that it's very confusing and they are changing their story all the time.

Thanks Kimmy. The claims being compromised are:

any claim for unfair dismissal (whether actual or constructive)

any claim for a redundancy payment, whether contractual or statutory

any claim for breach of contract or for wrongful dismissal, in particular, for pay or benefits in lieu of notice or damages for termination of employment without proper notice

any claim for outstanding pay, accrued holiday pay, bonuses or comssion

any claim for personal injury

any claim relating to unauthorised deductions under section 13 Employment Rights Act 1996

any claim of discrimination or victimisation or less favourable treatment on any ground including, but not limited to, sex, marital status, colour, race, nationality, ethnic or national origin, disability, equal pay, sexual orientation, religious belie, age, trade union activities, trade union membership or non membership, or status as a part-time or fixed term employee

any claim in respect of working time or holidays or rest periods

any claim in relation to protected disclosures, under the Employment rights Act 1996 and the Public Interest Disclosure Act 1998.

Well, for what its worth, I do think you need to spend money on speaking to a decent solicitor. A good friend of mine had a similarish situation a few years ago. It took a bit of time but ultimately they got a reasonable amount of money (for their salary) out of the company though. It is tempting to take the money and run but you'd need to figure out how much more you think you should get and whether it is worth it. In my friends case they were very tempted to take a low offer first made to get it over with but it was worth hanging out for more. Up to a point of course - when the figure was good enough he settled even though the solicitor thought he could probably squeeze a little extra for some points. Bear in mind re calculations that up to a certain limit it should be tax free (but solicitor can advise on this).

Given your circumstances you may well find that if they've taken legal advice, the fact they've offered a comp agmt up front does suggest they are very keen to settle. So my gut reaction is they would ultimately give you more. If you choose to take it further (and a snotty solicitors letter from you is a good starting point without too much expense) then head office may well not want the management distraction and want to pay more to make it all go away. Of course any course other than just signing the doc will lead to further delay and of course ongoing stress. Bear in mind thogh that it is reasonably common for more facts to "emerge" and for various allegations to start being made that your H was no good at his job, there had been ongoing issues etc - this will mainly be to scare you. Ultimately this is litigation and as such they will look like they are "playing hardball" but bear in mind this is standard as they won't be able to say anything that would admit any liability. Only the two of you can decide what the best course of action is. In my friend's case whilst it was horribly stressful for a while he is glad he pushed ahead with challenging them as its given him a much better outcome.

Compromise agreements are normally v standard and there is limited room to change things in them but the solicitor should of course be reviewing it anyway. You will need one for it to be valid anyway. £1000 is a good allowance from a company but you might be able to negotiate more. One top tip for meeting a solicitor is to do in advance a full written chronology of all relevant events and pull together everything you have on employment contracts, organograms, job descriptions, company handbook (if one) etc as this will save time in meetings and hence money. In addition your H should keep all details of jobs applied for, rejections etc to show he has been attempting to mitigate his loss by finding alternative employment.

In terms of picking a solicitor, you want someone who has been fully qualified for a couple of years but you can minimise costs by not having anyone much more senior than that as this is (put bluntly) not a highly technical area. One London firm I've heard good things about acting for employees (although have not dealt with myself) are

. Good luck!

Thanks to you all for your support - it means a lot.

I've been on the phone with a proper solicitor now - a follow on call after speaking to the company helpline earlier.

She's based in the office just down the road from us and asked me to e-mail over the CA and my H's contract. We're hopefully going to see her on monday - just need clarification as to whether we will be charged (if so how much) or whether this charge will be part of the £1K we have for the CA.

She's also going to speak to my H later once he's back from his interview.

I'm now going to start writing down in 1 document every little thing that has gone on.

Oh Alison, I do hope this solicitor can sort something out for you both, it must be so frustrating and emotional for you. x

Alison, i can't add any constructive advice but wanted to send you a big hug ?. i've been following your story and am in awe of how well you are handling everything, you are coping brilliantly even if it doesn't always feel like it.

remember to take a minute to yourself every so often - even just five mins walk in the fresh air, concentrating on long deep even breaths. it always helps me clear my head and i feel far more able to cope with stressful situations.

?