Lol I'm not interested in their religious twaddle!

But why would that matter to you if you don't believe in eternity?

p.s. - I don't have a clue what I am religion wise so really am open to both sides of the coin.

My last reply was to footlong, sorry on phone so can't quote.

Skeptical, I was talking more in a social context.

JW don't believe you will be damned. You will be dead. That's it. And no JW will ever say that to you (about being damned) so there's no need for a 'defence'. Can't speak for the others as I don't know about them.

I don't believe in eternity but my point was that is seems OK for religion to tell us we're going to burn in hell (which, in my mind is quite an aggressive statement) but if we admonish these beliefs we are 'attacking' them?

I would like to reiterate that I am TOTALLY all for people believing what they want to believe! But the very nature of belief based on faith, rather than scientific fact, is that it is open to challenge...whether atheist OR religious. And I think that's healthy! The day we all just start accepting one set of beliefs as doctrine, that's when things get dangerous. Although, it would stop a lot of fighting! ?

Sorry- that should have said 'ideology' or similar...? I'm losing the plot now. I'm supposed to be working!

If you hang around the right forums, you'll see atheists exposed to all kinds of viciousness

From my POV, atheism isn't really, well, anything. The term only exists because religion (or more accurately, belief in god) does, in the same way that the term 'dark' only exists because there is such a thing as 'light'. Dark as an entity doesn't exist, light as an entity does. Atheism as an entity doesn't exist, theism as an entity does.

I think I am respectful of most people's religious views. Obviously the harmful extremes that can be placed on the back of religion excluded.

I do think though that almost all people would like to have some comfort that there is * something* after we die. Not everyone wants everything explained away. I know I don't. Lots of people laugh at any type of faith but in my darkest moments I wish I had more.

I think that's fair. Religious groups do seem to be open to 'attack' more...I'm not sure why. Perhaps it has something to do with Christian religion in this country being viewed as somewhat archaic and old-fashioned? Maybe the recent revelations about the Catholic church re: paedophiles hasn't done much to polish it's image? (sorry, I seem to be doing some right Catholic bashing today...but they're the only examples I can think of!)

In the interests of balance, I should point out that there are a obviously a lot of religious groups and organisations which do fantastic charitable and humanitarian work. There are also lots of non-religious groups who do the same. I think that there are people of faith who are good and those who are not, just as I think that there are atheists who are good, and those who are not.

I think we're just lucky we live in a society where we do have the freedom to criticise and comment on the belief (or otherwise) of others without retribution. In some other countries you wouldn't DARE speak out. Take the recent case of a 14 year old boy being executed in Syria for making a joke using the work 'Mohammed'.

I agree 100% with the statement here, I dislike being disturbed on my doorstep, if I have questions about specific religions I will come to you. I have no belief whatsoever but when the woman I work with said she was parying for my scan to be ok I was not offended. I am sure alot of people were sending positive vibes out for me, she just choses to aim her's somewhere specific in the belief someone or something is listening.

The only thing that does offend me is when people of religious beliefs look down on me or have specific views on me because I don't have the same beliefs as them i.e. My Aunties mother in law who thinks I am below her and makes that quite clear and also thinks I am a tramp and a whore just because I am not muslim.

I have no patience for the JW/Mormons who knock on my door. I have a sign, saying i'm not interested, so when they still knock, it does actually pi$$ me off, and I tell them so.

If they can read their Bible at me, they can read a sign.

Because some religious groups support or actually do stuff that impacts on those who don't share their religion or faith.

Example: If a religious person wants to ban homosexual marriage because it goes against their faith and religious teachings, fine. But if the same religious person tries to insert that viewpoint into a legal system that governs all people, not just those of the religion in question, then it is everyone's right to demand justification. If the religious person chooses to assimilate that criticism or request for justification as an "attack", that's their lookout.

I have absolutely no issue with someone holding any belief they want. I respect their right, in a free society, to do so. I am not under any obligation to respect the belief in itself though. And once their belief begins to impact on my right to live freely from that belief, I will "attack".

"The right to swing my fist ends where the other man's nose begins" - Oliver Wendell Holmes.

Love this quote! I'll remember that one. ?

I would never and have never been rude to anyone coming to my door. But I do find it incredibly annoying. Last time it happened, it woke the baby as he was sleeping on me and I only got up because I thought it was the postie, who I buzz in and he then leaves my parcel by the door, and baby sleeps through this. But because I had to stand there and explain that I wasn't interested, Alex woke up and was extremely grumpy and it threw my whole day off. I don't mind the "gentle" kind of religion at all, and am entirely happy to live and let live. But coming to my door and waking my baby is not letting ME 'live'.

I'm agnostic. O/H is Athiest but by blood is Jewish (His mum is jewish, but didn't raise him to be), his dad is catholic ?

I tend not to answer the door, but I'm like that with most things. I struggle even when I'm expecting someone as I have social phobia ☹️..going to be good on my wedding day right?! hmm

I am also coincidently vegan and do my best to live cruelty free (within reason), I love a good vegan/vege debate. ?

People can knock on my door, but I'm out the house at 6.30am not home until 6.30pm on weekdays so I'm not likely to be in anyway.

So am I. I'm also atheist.

I really don't have a strong opinion. In a way I am envious of people who have their faith, whatever it be as it is a support and guide to a lot of people when they feel down or lost.

H's family are religious, his Grandpa was a vicar (CofE) but he doesnt really have any strong views one way or the other.

If a JW or Morman want to knock on my door, let them. I will be civil but firm. At the end of the day they are annoying because generally when they knock I'm in the middle of something, but I would try to avoid being rude to them, they're only doing what they believe they should be.

I don't f*cking believe it. I really don't.

The boy sitting next me in my office has just this minute asked me to look at a booklet outlining the new kingdom of earth/heaven/whatever. Don't you think it's beautiful, Footlong? Don't you think we should strive for this?

Um no, it's a picture of a gold palace with a rainbow over it. Look at this picture of my futuristic space car, it's got a robot driver and has enough room for all the sad children in the world and pumps pure love out of its exhaust. And it teleports. Don't you think we should strive for this?

Oh, and your inclusion of a rainbow is somewhat ironic, given your home country's laws about homosexuality being punishable by death (by stoning, nonetheless).

Not really. I smiled, looked him in the eye and said "No, sorry, but I'm not interested in discussing that". See, I am good ?

Ironic emoticon use. I like it.

Are you kidding? Where does the "weak and pale" stereotype come from then?

Erm.. Ditto. I'm forever getting funny looks and being called weird. Be it for being vegetarian is debatable hah!

Erm.. Ditto. I'm forever getting funny looks and being called weird. Be it for being vegetarian is debatable hah!

I don't open the door to anyone, unless I know who it is. Has worked for me all my life and I've never had an awkward moment with a JW!

For what it's worth, I'm not sure whether there is a God, or an afterlife, but I've prayed for what some might call a miracle before and it's worked. Whether it was a power from above or a coincidence, no one will ever know. And no one has the right to tell me what it was one way or another.

Some people NEED to believe. It helps them deal with pain, heartbreak, whatever and people deal in different ways.

That sort of stuff shouldn't be ridiculed.

Psalms 2.1

1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4He that sits in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision.

I dont consider myself religious but I have found myself praying a lot in the past few months. I dont know why.

I dont think anyone should ridicule others for their belief or faith. Its all very personal and very important to many people.

? Perfect timing and a very dignified response. I liked the one in your head better though

The Psalms verse was to demonstrate that derision is a weapon used by the other side too. But you'll just accuse me of ignoring the context, or missing the point, or something something.

I don't get this. Different ways of thinking, I guess. For me, one of the easiest ways to argue against enforced veganism is to point out the flaws with veganism. Of course, I would be more than happy to see enforced veganism overturned on the basis that people who don't support veganism shouldn't be forced to be vegans. I wish the Christian churches in were as similarly flexible when it comes to keeping their own beliefs firmly within their own doors.

With you on that NP.

I haven't posted around here for a while, partly because I've had a lot of other stuff going on, but if I'm honest, also partly because of this very issue. It's not just a problem here, but I got fed up of seeing anti-religious threads here, which I personally found offensive and rude (I think the gluten-free jesus thread was the last straw for me).

I think there is a big problem, in that it seems to have become acceptable to religion-bash. As a society we're much more acceptable (thankfully) of people of different races, sexuality, abilties/disabilities etc, but for some reason, it's as if we don't feel we have to be respectful towards people's views towards religion.

I understand what people are saying about having it rammed down your throat, and I think it's acceptable to complain about that. I never do that and wouldn't appreciate people doing that to me, and likewise, I feel like some people (in real life too!) think it is ok to ram atheism down people's throats. I'm a catholic but for each person who belongs to a religion, that is a different experience. I agree that paedophilic priests should be punished, I'm not anti-gay and my views on abortion are based on my own life experiences and other reasons, not religious reasons.

I don't think it is acceptable to tarnish groups of people because they belong under a particular label. Yes, a minority of people intepret and act on religious beliefs (from whatever religion) in a way that causes harm, but this also happens because of non-religious beliefs too. On the other hand, a lot (the majority I would hope) of us who have religious beliefs just get on with our lives and don't let them define us. I've never attempted to impose my views on others, and have only expressed my beliefs when asked. In fact, I think things have gone the other way to an extent, that many people with religious beliefs don't feel comfortable expressing them, for fear of being accused of trying to ram religion down people's throats. I was at a hen party recently of a girl who is getting married in the same catholic church as me (she is not catholic, her OH is) and the conversation led on to various comments about catholicism being a 'weird cult', the priest being a probable paedophile etc, and me sitting there, not saying a word but feeling very offended (I didn't say anything as I didn't want to cause an argument at my friends hen party). It got me thinking though about how it suddenly seems to have become acceptable to religion-bash. A close friend of mine who was there is gay and had her girlfriend with her. Imagine someone at the party had come out with a homophobic rant? Everyone would have been horrified (rightly so), yet to do it about religious groups is fine.

For me, I just happened to be born into a catholic family. For me now, that involves me believing in a god, which gives me a huge amount of comfort in dealing with difficulties, death etc in my life and trying to live my life as happily as possible. In terms of my interactions with others, I try to be 'christian' and treat people appropriately, but that's it, I don't cast aspersions on people because of my religious beliefs and I couldn't give a toss about anyone else's religious beliefs (or non-religious beliefs), that's their business not mine. I don't criticise other's beliefs and I think it is disrespectful for people of other religious beliefs or atheist beliefs to think it is ok to mock or disregard mine.

Rant over.

Irisbride, I think the main impetus with 'religion-bashing' is not to insult the person but to reduce the power/effect of the religion.

To take one issue - You are Catholic but not homophobic. The Catholic Church is, in that it operates marriages policies that discriminate against homosexuals (and has some pretty nasty things to say about their 'moral disorder'). It's none of my business how you reconcile that. It wouldn't be any of my business if the Catholic Church kept their policies within the Catholic Church - again, that's the business of the church and its members. But they don't keep it to themselves. They have deliberately, very publically and sometimes in a particularly ugly manner attempted to impose their policies re: marriage and homosexuality upon the British legal system, to dictate their own marriage policy to a population who are overwhelmingly not followers of their religion.

If I criticise the Catholic Church for attempting to influence public policy to suit their own means, if I criticise their marriage policy (which I believe to be discriminatory in a fashion that would be flat-out illegal outside of religion), is that 'religion-bashing'? Or do I have to keep quiet in the face of what I think is a massive social injustice, which they are active in maintaining? This is a genuine question, BTW.

Note: I am aware that it is not only the Catholic Church that oppose gay marriage.

Wow this thread certainly went off in a direction.

What a shame Irisbride has been keeping away though.

I'm harking back to my earlier comment - again a tangent and probably for a different thread, but do we think we (generally in society) are overusing the word offensive? or is our reaction to the word the issue? It is interesting to me as the word has been used a lot in this thread and in the other thread on WP about not inviting kids to weddings.

Does anyone feel the same as me?

Yes. To keep it general, I think some people in the big bad world use 'being offended' as a means to censor debate, as a means to shut up their opponent (and I can't say I'm innocent of this as a tactic, although I rarely feel genuinely offended about anything).

Here's Stephen Fry's take:

“It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so f*cking what.”

I like that. Maybe the words offensive, offended and offence should be replaced with another word on these threads, like cabbage is used instead of opinion. It's becoming used more than the word opinion or cabbage on these threads....