Lowering of limit for abortion (sens, obviously)

Oh don't be daft ? I'm all embarrassed now.

I missed an opportunity to thank those who've shared the difficult experiences they've faced in order to illuminate this thread. It's good of you to do it, and it's much appreciated.

What janeyh said about JK and Clairy with knobs on.

A huge 'wss' to both of janey's most recent comments. Clairy, it's not the first time I've heard about the things you've have to deal with in your past but, as before, words fail me, they really do. And JK, as ever- I pray to God that if I ever need a JK, I get a JK.

Again, there are issues all round this. But I was thinking of someone who really didn’t want to be pregnant- a schoolgirl for example. If you really don’t want to be pregnant, the chances of you being are slim. I could get pregnant- I’m on the pill and there are things which could stop that working. But, it wouldn’t be the end of the world for me.

When I was at school I had a number of friends who were on the pill, used condoms and still had need for the MOP once or twice. I know that seem ridiculous but when you come go to catholic schools the risk is just too great for most girls. Would I do that now? Course not, but whats the worst that could happen if I got pregnant?

I think there is a massive difference between lapsing a bit, or taking your eye off the ball, or forgetting contraception and taking a chance and knowing there is no way in hell you can get pregnant.

God grief clairy, I posted before reading your post. In all honesty I had never even considered things like that- I suppose I'm thinking siuations where women truly have no control over their body are in the minority but reading that has made me realise it could well not be.

I'll let you into a secret, it's really the softest blend of cashmere and merino you could find ;-)

I can imagine you do a fabulous job and it's good that you do because the situations are so bl00dy rotten anyway, the last thing a woman needs is an inconsiderate, judgemental, insensitive cow of a mw/sonographer.

Clairy, you should write your story up properly some time. You write so well and there must be people out there who could do with knowing that things can change and change drastically.

I agree with Zeb. I really think you could make a memoir out of your experiances (whether or not you'd want to is a diferent matter but you write beautifully and it could help so many peple in similar situations)

Every time Clairy talks about her experiences, I am humbled and grateful never to have been in that situation myself.

She's certainly not alone, I know at least two other strong, smart women who went through an almost identical experience with having their right to contraception controlled by their ex-partners. Right down to being thrown down the stairs when pregnant.

Clairy, your story rang so many bells, I just ran away and had my baby adopted, it seemed right as I wasn't in a job, home, family etc. As you said I wasn't stupid, young yes, scared yes much... As you say, you never know until your there how desperate you can get until you reach there.

My life is great like yours now, we bare the scares but we move on. My daughter though has a similar relationship now, a new baby etc and I can just see the history repeating and although I can't ever imagine been there if that makes sense.

As I have said before, it's sad that people get so desperate that the only solution is terminating so late.

Im not sure on the gestational age issue but i think its just another step away from the problem, contraception. it needs to be pushed alot more.

Both Clairy and Marleys posts have brought tears to my eyes. Thank you both for sharing.

This is a highly emotive subject and makes me feel very uncomfortable but when all said and done I am pro choice, not really for myself but more for the most vunerable in society. I can't ever imagine the decision to abort at above 12 weeks being taken lightly and feel that the law should be left alone for that reason although I must admit the emotional side to me thinks lower it thats only because it hurts me so much to imagine my little boy not being here so that is a completely emotional reaction and not one that is thought through. I hope that makes sense.

I may be crashing the thread slightly, but I just wanted to say how brave of Clairy and Marley especially to talk about their experiences, it makes this place what it is and in turn helps others in similar situations find comfort. I thank everyone here for that ?

Totally agree with pretty much everything you have said Sophie. I have long thought that many people's attitudes to abortion are couched in moral judgments about a woman's behaviour eg "I only agree with it if the woman's been raped" - oh, heaven forbid that a woman could have consensual sex and still end up with an unwanted pregnancy.

I do not support a lowering in the time limit for reasons already covered in this thread - specifically, I find it very hard to believe that many (any?) women get to 24 weeks of pregnancy and think "Oh what the hell, I don't think I'll be bothered having it any more" and saunter off for an abortion. But even if there are rare cases where that does happen, unpalatable as I may find it personally, it is IMO a lesser evil than forcing women to continue with pregnancies. Like others have said, I believe it is more likely to be the vulnerable who have late abortions - be it women with chaotic lifestyles (drugs maybe), women who haven't found out they were pregnant till late on, women in abusive relationships. These are the women who will suffer if the time limit is reduced.

I also find the argument that foetuses can survive at 23/24 weeks a bit irrelevant. In any event, there has been publicity recently that due to the fact outcomes for babies born at such premature gestation are generally so terribly poor, that many neonatologists (sp) now support not providing anything other than palliative care to them rather than aggressive treatment.

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Thanks. I'm a bit embarrassed at the response and feel as though I have employed cheap tricks to 'win' the argument.

FWIW, I don't think I have been brave. I have just lived through an experience that I didn't expect to. The reason I keep telling my story is because I didn't think it would ever happen to me. It was a huge, profound shock to find myself in that situation. I hope it doesn't sound arrogant, but I am a sensible, resourceful person. I strongly believed that no-one would ever hit me and get away with it. I can't imagine myself in that situation again now or in my future.

I think the point is, it's easy to think you're in control when actually, sometimes circumstances control you. I remember the first few arguments, the first few dates, but I don't remember the first time he hit me. By that stage my self esteem was pretty much zero. People who manipulate you are resourceful and clever - and, to be honest, I'm not even sure HE had a game plan. I don't think he started off thinking he'd ruin my self esteem and then start hitting me. His self esteem was pretty low, as was his need to control. The more he controlled me, the more he liked it (most of the time). He loved me in his own way, and I loved him - even though I hated him too. I simulatenously believed he was 'saving' me from myself too.

The other thing that is absolutely key to my situation is that I had no money. I was a student and money was scarce, but any money I did have was either spent with alarming speed by my ex (alcohol and CDs / playstation games were favourites), or he would literally cut up my cards or hide them. You don't have choices when you don't have money.

For all these reasons I think the abortion law should be unchanged. However, every day that passes I thank my lucky stars that I have people close to me who respect me, and the financial wherewithall to buy myself choices. And, even though it's really depressing, I can't be 100% sure that I will always have the relationships / money / mental health / self respect / housing / choices that will enable me to remain as in control as I am now. There but by the grace of God and all that ...

Not a case of cheap tricks, more that - and I don't mean to belittle what you've said - people are often convinced by realy stories when they won't be swayed by abstract facts and figures.

I find your story and that of all women in such relationships deeply sad and worrying. Although my marriage was never abusive per se, it (and hence I) had a lot of similar symptoms - I look back now and am quite amazed at what I was willing to tolerate. And yet I don't think the men who treat women badly are necessarily evil: they are just so deeply, deeply flawed that they can only sustain a relationship when the balance of power is dramatically skewed in their favour.

I agree with you Sophie, and I don't feel belittled at all.

I'm sorry for your experiences, but I think you are quite right. Abusive relationships are not black and white on either side. It took me a long time to realise that, and to stop feeling stupid for allowing that to happen to me. I honestly believe my ex was doing the best that he could, but character flaws (or his personal history) meant that he was narcissitic and lacked empathy. Which is a dangerous combination.