Mrs vs Ms? - On Invites and in Real Life

As a child growing up, at school we had a Mrs Page and a Ms Smith. Mrs Page was married, Ms Smith was divorced. My understanding (not necessarily my opinion) is that a lot of people will think Ms as a divorcee.

Just done a quick squiz of the team at work and all 7 of them (including an American) said Ms would indicate a divorcee.

I also thought Ms. was for an older lady who had not married, but felt that being referred to as 'Miss' was a bit of a 'young' term. I want to be called Mrs once married, but now I am a Miss. xx

Yeah, I think previously I had thought Ms meant a divorcee or an older, never married woman (because it seems a little silly to call a 50 year old Miss?) But, then I did some searching on the internet, and it seems that Ms is technically the neutral default (at least according to the very long entry on Wikipedia). And also, according to Emily Post, divorced women can also use Mrs.

There's way too much going on with this! So much easier for men who just have Mr regardless.

My opinion is that in the UK its generally Mrs for married, or Miss for not. I dont know of any people who use Ms. I would use it to hedge my bets if I didnt know someones marital status. I feel that Ms is generally used by older people who feel that Miss is too 'young' or by divorcees, despite what wikipedia or Debretts might say, its how people view it not the formal rules!

In reality every woman I know uses Miss or Mrs unless they are divorced in which case some use Ms. Its really not a particularly popular title in the UK as far as I am aware. I had a teacher at primary school who went by the title Ms. but she was divorced. Every other teacher was either Mrs or Miss. I have only used Ms on invitations where I don't actually know their marital status, although i think i should have probably used Miss as its less contentious.

As for FSIL having an issue with you not changing your name, maybe, but unlikely. A lot of women don't change their names now, but again its still a more british tradition to change your name. I have been met with some looks of astonishment when I said i am considering keeping my own surname as all of my academic titles are in my name.

What HelsAngel said. I think you got it right the first time. I don't like Ms, indicates divorcee, which an outsider might assume all kinds of wrong things from, it reminds me of my previous crap marriage, and also think it sounds haughty. 'That's ms to you, sir..'. So even though I'm currently a divorcee I use Miss. You could have put to Mr. X and Mrs. Y Z, for the first invitations I suppose, but seems a bit of a mouthful, and would take up more space on the invites.

I think going forward I'm going to drop all titles and just use names!!!

Hmmm... I always thought the same - Ms is for those ladies who don't want to disclose their marital status

But reading about the divorcee bit I think that makes more sense now ?

I'd just put whatever you like OP! People are gonna moan whatever you do - maybe stick to the traditional again for thank you cards and if anyone complains just say its "etiquette"

"Dear Steve and Sarah"

Much easier, until Sarah get's the hump that it's not Sarah and Steve!!

Use what YOU want, you're writing the things. To be honest, I'd be so delighted with an invitation, I'd not even notice. I will be using Mr and Mrs Paul Jones on my invites if they're married, basically because the invites are saying "Mr and Mrs Bob Williams request the pleasure" etc. and it's continuity.

I use Ms. I'm not divorced. When I'm married I will continue to use Ms at work where I will continue to practise in my maiden name. My passport and driving licence both say Ms. I'm not old (28) I just don't like being addressed in court as Miss or Mrs as I prefer to be neutral in that territory. Many of the women in my Chambers are known as Ms and many of my friends, also the same age, use Ms. I don't think it's that unusual any more and it certainly isn't just for old divorcees.

I would be pretty peeved if someone addressed me as Mrs 'OHs first name' X. We might be a family and I might be going to take his surname when we're married but I'm not taking on his first name as well! However, I would never raise it with a friend and make them feel bad about addressing me that way on a formal invitiation.

I'm English btw. OP - for what it's worth I think some of your guests are a little sensitive. You can't be expected to know what title everyone prefers!

WSS ?

People always find a way to complain eh? ?

I did this! Makes it a lot easier when it's families rather than couples, too, then everyone gets named in the same way IYSWIM, and avoids getting it wrong if you're not sure. On envelopes though I still put Mr. and Mrs. husband surname for couples, Miss for 'single' women and Ms. for divorcees.

You must just have some very over sensitive guests, I can't people take offence if someone writes the wrong title! I personally don't like Ms for myself but I couldn't care less what other people choose to use. I had to address an invite to my cousin who is twice divorced and has unofficially gone back to her maiden name, I put Ms I think as Miss sounds a bit silly for a 50 year old. It's quite easy here in Switzerland, when you're young it's Mademoiselle and when you reach a certain age (no idea what the cut off point is) it's Madame whether you are married or not. I have been mistakenly called Mademoiselle a couple of times and when they realise their mistake they are very apologetic?!

I use Ms all the time. It is the acknowledged default setting for those who feel that marital status does not define them - works for Mr, doesn't it?

It is not specifically for divorcees or older ladies or those disappointed in love..." *sigh*

I used it before my wedding and use it now. No change needed.

I am 27 and I use Ms, incidently I do get funny looks about it.

I will remain a Ms Maiden name when i marry as i believe that my marital status has nothing to do with anyone else.

I am a teacher and it is a pain when people change names and I dont think my status should change upon marriage which is also why im keeping my maiden name in real life and work.

I dont get on well with my FSIL and always write to her as Mrs Husbands initial as that is the correct way she took his name and gave up hers so she can have it all as far as im concerned!

Childish much? If you know she doesn't like it, and you yourself think it's important that people address you in a way you prefer. No wonder you don't get on. Maybe if you showed a bit more maturity in this respect she'd give you more respect? FWIW I'll be quite happy to be addressed Mrs. husband first name surname, if we are being named as a couple. Individually though, I'm me, not him.., so I'll be Mrs. my name surname.

Huh? Bluemoongirly just said it was the correct way, nothing to do with trying to wind up her FSIL.

Correct way for married woman...Mrs John Smith

Correct way for divorced woman...Mrs Anne Smith.

Yes, i dont know whether she likes it or not...that has nothing to me, if i was sending an invite as a couple they are Mr and Mrs hisfirstname surname. Thats the correct way!

I read it like you do it to wind her up too Bluemoongirly ?

Think it's cause you put you don't get along with her and then said how you address her.

& I think being a teacher is a good example of where it's used, I remember having a primary school teacher who was a "Ms" for that reason too!

No no, to be fair i think i have only written it once...dont invite them to much

The kids call everyone "Miss" anyway generally whether you are married or not but offically at work i am a Ms. My mum just thinks im awkward but as im not changing my name and dont want to be mrs surname (like my mum) its the only option.

OP, you are right that technically, "Ms" is a default non-specific title for women. It is slowly becoming more popular as more women enter professions, but in the UK still has a lot of negative connotations - people will often think you are a)divorced, b)single but feel too old to be a Miss or c)a militant feminist. This is all a bit outdated, but it's sadly not an uncommon viewpoint, which might be why people made some sarky comments. It's not worth getting too upset over though.

FWIW, I use Dr everywhere possible, because I prefer to be defined by my professional achievements than my marital status (though I have changed my name). If that's not an option I tend to use Ms, but I don't get offended if someone sends us something addressed to Mr & Mrs B.

Yep every time I see Ms I think divorcee or widowed...

I could be very wrong and that may not be the meaning...
but it just what it makes me think x

Like Helenia, I use Dr. Much easier. And I've never had to define myself as anything other. I kept my maiden name upon marriage and I have no idea if I should be Miss first name maiden name or Mrs first name maiden name. I don't care. But woe betide if anyone were to address me as Mrs His first name his surname.

All our stationery, including envelopes, were addressed to first names only.

I didn't change my name on marriage either.

But last week my H was addressed as Mr Custard. How I laughed.

I truly object to having to select a title based on its transparency in terms of communicating my sexual availability to the opposite sex - particularly when only one gender 'has' to do this. I'm a Miss C now, I'll be a Miss C afterwards. I think Ms is entirely suitable - and I personally would appreciate your attempt to remove my marital status from my title, but people will differ from this opinion I'm sure. Also, if we're talking Debretts accuracy, 'invite' is a verb, 'invitation' is the noun

Personally I feel the same with respect to the gender stereotyping that results from the use of the Mr vs Miss/Ms/Mrs titles. However, I also think that people should be entitled to use what they want (though, it would be nice to accept one neutral title, such as 'Ms').

Regarding Debretts and 'invite': 'invite' is also a noun. Just checked two dictionaries. First use was in 1659 according to Merriam-Webster.

Not sure why but I have always had the understanding that Ms can be either a Miss or Mrs.

Before marrying for the 1st time I used Ms, changed to Mrs after I married then returned to Ms after we separated and all my correspondence from my solicitor was address to me as a Ms both before and after the divorce was settled. So this re-enforced my belief that I was down to personal preference.

Widowed ladies normally reatin Mrs, my mum did on the death of her husband.

I see Ms as the politicly correct terminology for a lady regardless of martial status.

I would never dream of addressing an invite to Mr & Mrs Bob Smith, we are not in the 1800's

Check as many dictionaries as you like - it is widely regarded as poor form to use 'invite' - some places will tell you a shift in the stress to the first syllable changes it to a noun; it doesn't. It doesn't bother me to be honest...but if we're talking etiquette, you gotta get it right, no?

But more to the point...

Does it matter?