O/T Religion coming between me and OH :( UPDATE

Im in no way religious and don't believe god exists so i can only say don't let religion ruin your relationship. It's not worth it. I guess you have to decide what's more important to you your fiance or religion?

I go to church (not as much as id like due to work) but id be fuming if this was my fiance...........he knows how important this is to you, agreed that you would have your kids christened etc and now hes going back on it........something so important to you and hes dismissing it now.....if it was me id be wondering what else he would agree to and then back down on........at the end of the day its something youre gona have to compromise on.....are you really serious about splitting up? has his mum been feeding him a lot of nonsense?

Thanks for your replies. He has just had me in floods of tears because he has blatantly said stuff to slag my religion and then when i rang him he didnt even answer. Yes I am deadly serious now after that. He knew very well how important it is to me - I know were both stubborn but that was out of order as was the 'cheat and gold digger' comment a few weeks ago which was 'said in anger' I think since we last had a row and she got involved, she has been feeding him loads of rubbish and hes choosing his mum over me before its even begun. He's continuing to slag my religion off and everything I believe in and it just makes me think he never loved me.

aw im sorry to hear that. how long have you been together? it would be a shame if you split up but isnt it better to know all this before you marry him? im sorry for saying this but he sounds a bit selfish and immature....

Just a little info about me: I am Catholic and so is OH and any children we have will be baptised and raised as Catholic. I was baptised as a baby, attended a Catholic school and was taught about God and the Bible by my mum and other relatives on my mother's side. My OH was not baptised (although he will be before the wedding) and did not attend a Catholic school because his parents wanted him to decide as an adult whether he wanted to be a Christian or not, but he has always considered himself to be a Catholic.

What I'm wondering is whether it is really so important to baptise your future children as babies. They can still be Catholics and you can still raise them with an understanding of God and prayer, etc and take them to church with you. Would this be a suitable compromise? God loves all children whether they have been baptised or not and they can still be blessed by your vicar in church. I understand your mum has strong opinions about this and I would never say they were wrong, but i can't see that your OH's family are doing anything worse than she is. Your OH is entitled to change his mind about such an important subject and it may be that by the time you do have children he will have changed it back again. I think if you make too much of an issue about it now it will only make him more defensive. I think you should keep an open mind for now and see how it goes. No idea if this will help you at al, beliefs are a very personal thing and this advice might not work for you.

I couldn't agree more and he's winding me up with each text I send even despite me asking him to leave me alone.

If I don't do it, it will go against what I personally believe and what I've been brought up to believe and so far im the only one compromising on anything x

Thanks hon, cant sleep though but will try.

Thanks ladies xx

Nite nite......hope you get it sorted xxx

Thank you - nite nite xxx

The problem with religion is that people usually feel very strongly one way or the other about it. I feel strongly against religion. My Dad's side is Catholic and they are the horriblest people in the world and it is because of the religion. His parents didn't even come to my parents wedding because it was a catholic ceremony. I would never agree to my children being brought up with any sort of religion and getting baptised or anything like that. They will not have anything about religion in their life. So as i said people usually feel very strongly one way or another about it.

Whilst it does appear that your faith, and his lack of, are a big issue here, it's not just religion that can cause problems - although it's often an easy thing to blame.

When there is something that you feel very strongly about, and your partner feels completely the opposite about, it will cause conflict, and it's very hard to come to a middle ground on it.

This could be about money, how to raise children, how to discipline children, the time you spend going out alone with your friends, the amount of money you spend doing up that old car/motorbike that will probably never run again, hobbies, the list is almost endless.

I'm not really sure what to advise - I assume that you've never kept your faith a secret from your partner and you've been fairly open about it, your expectations in life and certain things you would accept as 'normal' so it shouldn't really be a surprise to him now, should it?

It's unfortunate too that it sounds like his family are getting involved in trying to turn him against you and your faith - so many otherwise good relationships are spoilt when other members of the family interfere and don't respect that their place in your priorities has changed.

Personally, I believe that the act of 'christening', done as a child, is purely symbolic, and doesn't actually make one a Christian - but I'm not sure that this forum is the best place to get in-depth into spiritual matters when there are many people against even the slightest mention, and the only reason they want a church wedding is because it's a pretty building.

Sorry to be so blunt but hang on a moment here... not at any point in any of these posts have said these children, that you havent even had yet, are HIS too as well, he would have had a part in making these babies so surely as a father he has a right, as much as you do, to choose what does and doesnt happen to his children, be it discipline, meat eating versus vegetarianism, religion...

Maybe thats food for thought too that HE may feel pushed out, already, of deciding his childrens future before they have even been born!

Not a girl, but I think I have something to offer Firstly I can relate to how difficult it can be with your partner's family, my fiancee's mother is not religious and she always seems to want to tell me about my religion. I've tried telling her over and over that I believe it is wrong to spread hate in Jesus' name and that I would never picket someone's funeral but this makes no difference at all it seems.

I think you need to be honest with yourself here, it is a wonderful thing to find love but I don't necessarily believe that love can overcome every obstacle that it faces if it represents a dealbreaker to one of the partners. I can't tell you what your dealbreaker issues should be but I think you should make an effort to decide that for yourself while being distracted as little as possible by your emotional attachment to your partner. It does seem very unfair that he would accept you as a religious person and then go back on that, but sometimes when you have all these new relationship feelings you might say things that you later reconsider. It's sad, but a risk that all of us have taken I think.

I can't tell you whether to leave your partner or not, just be sure to consider how you might feel about what happens if he continues disrespecting your religious beliefs. For me, becoming a Christian was such a defining moment in my life and if someone were to mock that at every opportunity I would have a hard time viewing this person as a suitable life partner, but then I also don't believe in christening children as babies - I won't force my children to accept God and so I think it would be wrong of me to make promises on their behalf - so maybe we have different approaches. I'm sure that if you're a Christian you will have prayed about the issue, I know for me sometimes it's difficult to decide if God is telling me something or if i've made it up because it's what I want to hear but maybe you are better at it than me.

OMG, so you are basically saying that she has every right to walk away from the wedding just because she can't get her own way....!!

AS I said in my previous post, these WILL be his children too and should absolutely have a say in their upbringing as well rather than being bullied into it as she will basically give him an ultimatum as either she will walk away from him or give in to her whims.

Yes, I do think it wrong of his family to ridicule her faith as that is her choice in life but then in my opinion also it is wrong of her to potentially offer him the above ultimatum.

I agree with you both kind of, i am catholic, not practicing and i never heard the end of how my baby wasnt getting christned catholic by my biggoted in laws whilst i was pregnant, it was none of their buisness, they are not christian as such but belive they are 'protestants'. Little did they know i dont belive you should give a small child with no opinions a religion they might not even want, so my 2 year old doesnt know who god is or any of that stuff, i dont belive in anything apart from the fact science created us in some way even after a catholic school upbringing, but if he decides to belive it when hes older he can. I think your in laws should butt out and let you decide among yourselfs but i also think you should really consider your OH to, its not really good to push such strong ideas on children......in my opinion anyway.

I really don't think it's that simple as to say walking away from the wedding because she can't get her own way. Being a Christian is a big part of my life and I couldn't be with someone who persistently refused to respect that and I know that this is not an obscure view among the group I belong to. It's no different to deciding not to marry someone because they are set against having children in my opinion, sometimes you'll find that something really is that important that there is no viable compromise. Again I think it's up to the OP to decide whether this is her dealbreaker, but I don't think it's wrong of me to suggest that for some it can be a decisive issue.

It sounds like you are going through the mill, hope things sort themself out for you.

Me and my OH have had some serious discussions about religion due to the wedding, he was christened Catholic and me as a Methodist. Saying that he is now in the army and his Dogtags say "Atheist", which I wanted to understand before our church wedding (To avoid family disputes we are marrying in a CofE service). I asked him what he does when he is really scared, or what he does when he needs guidence. He told me about a time he was involved in an IED explostion and he prayed for safety, which tells me, that he does believe in something, so we are going ahead with our church service.

When we have children my OHs nan who is a strong catholic will insist they are christened Catholic (as she has with her other 2 grandkids) but we've decided they will either be christened CofE and left to decide later or christened as a Methodist, simply because my OH hasn't been to Mass in years, and as I won't go (with it not being my religion) then we would be comitting to something that is a lie. Regardless of whether they are christened there are certain times in a year when they will have to attend my church as I will want to. Eg: Rememberance sunday, mothers day, easter, midnight mass, christingle. Etc.

That said your relationship is different as your OH doesn't believe at all but what I am trying to say is that if you can't disagree on such a fundamental basis for the upbringing of your children or the basis of your marriage, then you would be right (as you said you are) to consider your future as a couple.

In terms of sorting out this issue, i'd ask the above question that I asked my OH and see what his response is, if he doesn't believe, even at his most desperate moments then I am afraid you have to respect that as much as he has to respect your religion.

As for your Mom saying she wouldn't forgive you if you didn't christen your kids, I know you don't want to hear this, but that's emotional blackmail and is adding flames to the fire - I would suggest discussing this issue one on one with your OH, face to face, and both agreeing the discussions go no further.

Good luck - it would be a shame to throw your relationship away over this.

But at no point in your post have you said either that the father of these poor poor children that havent even been born yet, let alone conceived has as much "right" to have a say in their upbringing as much as the mother has!

Relationships do break down over far less important things than religious differences.

As I said previously though, although couples don't necessarily need to agree 100% on every single issue, after all who cares if you have different music tastes or if one prefers a bath to a shower, but on issues such as raising children there does need to be total agreement.

I've been there with arguing parents all the time through my early years and it was not a pleasant experience, but I did decide that it was not something I would ever put any of my children through - when the inevitable disagreements arise, you do it out of their earshot.

I don't think this is beyond help though - it seems to me very much like his family influencing him, and he needs to stand up to them and make them realise that they do not have a say, his wife to be is his new priority, and they will work through it on their own without their interference. Not just on this issue, but I do know that parents, mothers in particular, find it very difficult to handle the concept of "letting go" and that they are no longer the priority in their children's lives.

Most couples, when left to their own devices, can work out most issues.

OP, may I ask, which sort of church is it you go to?

I agree and it is also strongly influenced by the grandmother, but i dont want 2 sound mean it is a shame and hope it gets sorted, it wasnt a problem b4 the familys stepped in so they should get away and agree themselves.

Of course he does! I would have thought it not necessary to state that point. My line of thought comes from a place WAY before children will even come into it, so I didn't consider it necessary to make that a part of my post. When dealing with an issue like this, you have to walk before you run and I think the OP has more immediate concerns given her wedding is over a year away and so she won't be having any children for at least 2 years.

Playing devils advocate here... it MIGHT have been an issue for him but decided to keep quiet, he then may have spoken to his family about his concerns just as the OP has to her mother and he may have decided to then speak out about his feelings which she now dislikes, however, this is a two way street and she also should be happy to compromise rather than saying "well, you told it was ok and now it isnt so I'm considering walking away from you" surely if the OP walks away from everything in her life that doesnt go her way then I'm afraid she's going to be a very lonely girl!

On her partners defence and indeed anyones defence, if someone tells you something that you "want" to hear then be prepared for them to take stock of their feelings too and may renege on their first comment as they may have had time to self reflect or indeed speak to their family...

Going back to christenings, I have been a lapsed christian (agnostic) for more than 10 years, but as a result of getting married to a catholic, whose father will be a deacon, i have been attending church on a regular basis. I also believe that is is easier to opt out and change your mind, than opt in - coward that i am! So our children will be baptised because what we believe may ebb and flow, but i think it is better to have something to hold onto in the tough times then left hanging. I wish i had returned to the church sooner.

Our children will also have to be baptised younger than 6 months as our family christening gown which is over 100 years old is definitely for tiny tots!

Im laughuing emj85 will have a lot of reading 2 do over her coffee this morning ?. Not that its a funny matter!

OP, seeing as you have only recently got back together with your H2B and you are already arguing again, maybe religion isn't the problem - maybe you are just not suited.

AJ, the reason I haven't got into an in depth discussion on here about religion is because I don't want to trample on people's beliefs just because I don't believe in them. I'm not getting married in a church - I went to a carol concert just before Christmas and that was more than enough...

Tbh, I think it's a bit silly arguing over children that arn't even born yet! You said about him not respecting your beliefs but I don't think you're respecting his either. I was christened when I was younger and didn't have a choice, if I did there would be no way I would want to be christened.

I am totally against someone forcing their beliefs on someone else whether they are religious or not. You both need to find a happy medium and I believe he has already done that by agreeing to marry in a church, I think you need to do the same. x

I personally am not religious. I was christened, the OH wasn't. I would like our children christened, he doesn't. We will probably leave it to them to decide or make that decision when they are actually born.

I think KBS has a valid point here. Any children you have will be his as well as yours and you both are equally entitled to have a say in their upbringing. Sometimes (and I'm not saying you) people can be of the opinion that if you are religious then that is the final say in all arguments and should be respected above anyone else's beliefs/feelings.

If he strongly is opposed to getting them christened (regardless of his interfering family), he shouldn't be forced into it, because you believe they should be. Alternatively you shouldn't be forced into not getting them christened because he believes they shouldn't be. However, if you are a partnership you BOTH have to make compromises, not just 'my way or the highway' attitude from either of you.

Perhaps if you bring them up as Christians sharing your beliefs they will want to be christened themselves then you both are happy about it??

I also think Mooey has a very valid point. You split up at Christmas didn't you and have just got back together, maybe you should both be looking at how much you want to be together and how much you want to get married first and then all the finer details of your future life can be discussed with that in mind.

If you are meant for each other and love each other deeply, you both need to stop listening to your families' opinions and discuss things sensibly to see if a compromise can be reached, in every aspect of your lives.

KBS it isn't that the OP wont allow her husband to have a say in the upbringing of his children, it's that he said he would be fine getting them christened if that was what she wanted. To me it sounds like her faith is an enormous part of her life and her OH is now basically doing a U turn and saying it doesn't matter to him.

Whatever it would have been that you believed so strongly in - faith, discipline, parenting styles - to have the man who is supposed to love you turn around and say these things that are so very important to you don't matter? Well if it was me I would be seriously considering my relationship.

Yes, I agree that he did say in the beginning but what we dont know if he said it to appease her after they had got back together or he was under some kind of duress.. He may have had a change of heart after exploring his own self awareness or indeed after speaking to his own immediate family, why shouldnt he speak to his family about it, the OP has and I dont agree with the OP's mother either gving them an ultimatum, as such about it, it will be THEIR children, not hers, not his and not either of their families. So in my opinion she shoudnt be giving him ultimatums and he maybe shouldnt have agreed with it in the first place just to make her happy if he didnt feel it right.

Thanks for all your posts.

KBS, I in no way intended to offend you or anyone and yes of course I want him to have a say in our future children's upbringing. Granted I understand it may seem a little silly discussing something that hasnt happened yet but religion has been a major part of my life and I would not want to not practise that or teach my children they can believe in this without the support of 'daddy' but what I am most upset about is that he has said he would support it and then suddenly said no actually it's sh**e.

Then last night, he proceeded to make fun of me and slag my religion off - I see what you are saying but noone should have to have that from their partner.

He may be 'compromising' by having the service in a church but he originally said in this too that he has nothing against it and nothing against saying e.g 'we are gathered here in the eyes of god' I know it is different in the sense another being would be in the picture but marriage in a church and christening a child into the church are very very important to me.

In answer to your comment that I didnt seem to have compromised and am runnign because I cant get my own way - this isnt the case at all - if he turned around and said 'the only way to discipline a child is by hitting them' I would 'Walk away'

I was thinking of a compromise that is why I was up looking at alternatives but the second he started to purposefully make fun and slag the very thing I belive in off - my actions changed.

x

I'm still reading this thread through, but one point to note about Catholicism is that it requires that any children of a catholic to be baptised as a catholic... (This was an edict of Pope Pius X at the turn of the century... I suppose that some parents do not follow this, but in my experience, most do). As you're not practising, it does not matter to you, but this is where the train of thought come from...