O/T Religion coming between me and OH :( UPDATE

Gosh, you havent offended me at all !!

I do think that you both need to sit down and discuss this though without either your mothers views or indeed his families views coming into play, as soon as either of you bring family into an argument then you might as well stop having the conversation at that point as neither of you will listen whilst the other is purporting to be "slagging" of the others nearest and dearest..

You definately do need to come to some sort of compromise though before you get married as this will come up in every argument you will ever have and as Im sure you would agree is not healthy for your children to see nor hear, I know some people say that they dont arguee in front of their children but believe me, the children do still "hear" it be it in body language or lack of communication between you etc..

I hope you do work it out as you both need to "learn" to compromise as you will have this issue in every relationship you go into.

It must be really difficult to take that from someone that you love, so I do feel for you.

My honest opinion is that you can't force your opinions on someone, there is only so much that people will "play along to" for example my OH is happy to have a church service but if I wanted to follow that with sacriment (sharing and bread and wine) then it would be too much for him and I will have pushed him too far. Perhaps that's the case?

I think that whatever happends re; the original question, you need to be very frank and outline some expected behaviour for your marriage and relationship from both of you - slagging you off, calling you names, disrecpecting you and doing it to/infront of his family, is this what you want for your marriage? (obviously I don't know what you've said to him which is why I said both people need to set out expected standards of behaviour) but if it were me as a minimum i'd ask for respect for my views, not to be ridiculed and upset and not to be so childish as to ignore calls.

Spot on.

I'm not relgious, but when you are marrying someone, you love them unconditionally. And includes religion, etc etc.

I may be confused, but agree with this - I think in our CofE service when we make our promises in church for our wedding we are also agreeing to bring up and children the marriage may weild under the same religion and beliefs.

TBH Emj, I think there may be deeper problems than religion which need addressing first. No one who is due to be married should be spoken to like that nor speak like that. He shouldn't be ridiculing your faith when he said he was fine with it initially.

I think there may be other issues you both need to look at. Good luck. Hope you can sort things out x

Em

Obviously we're not party to the exactly nature of your communications via text or whatever over the last few days.

I would strongly suggest a conversation face to face. Texts are just words on a screen, without tone of voice or facial expressions to back them up and it maybe that one or both of you have misinterpretted something along the line which has caused the text discussion to turn nasty.

For whatever reason, people do change their minds. My mum and dad waited until I was 6 to have me Christened so I could know more about what I was doing. I was also then Confirmed when I was 11... I'm now not religious at all. I hold my hand up and say that I have no faith. I'm not a bad person because of it, I just choose not to believe that I have to follow a religion to be a good person. As some have suggested, he may have been ok with your strong views on religion, until something forced him to really consider the consequences. Sometimes you don't have an opinion until you HAVE to have an opinion. I don't think he's in the wrong, in as much as I don't think you're in the wrong either, but we are allowed to have a change of heart on things ranging from the trivial to the monumental. If your life together is to work, it must be better to try and work through these differences now than for him to grudgingly go along with your wishes with a simmering resentment that then blows up years down the line.

I don't think you're being silly at all for questioning whether you have a future together, but it would be good to have a conversation once the dust has settled and neither of you are saying things that you might regret in the heat of the moment.

I do personally think that it is possible for you to find some middle ground, so long as you're both willing to compromise. But equally, you need to be absolutely sure that you're not going to have regrets if you do decide to go your separate ways.

I also agree with others on here in that both of you seem to be more willing to discuss your own points of views with your families than you are willing to discuss, calmly, with each other. Sending him texts, when he's probably feeling riled is not going to help. But I think that's an emotional difference between men and women - we tend to reach out to communicate whereas men, it would seem, often prefer to be alone with their thoughts.

I hate to say this, but you parents aren't going to disagree with you, they're going to reinforce your fears, concerns and anger. They're not necessarily going to give you a balanced opinion.

Let the dust settle. Give BOTH of yourselves time to think. A couple of days if needs be. And then reconvene to talk face to face.

My fiance's children have been brought up in a very strict religious household and he has had no say in the matter because he and their mother split when they were very young. Personally I feel it has had a profound detrimental effect on their lives, they are completely indoctrinated and nothing good can come from their religion... BUT - that is just my personal view.

As a previous poster said, they will be his children as well, not just yours, and so he should get a say in the way they are raised. Unfortunately it is not all about you. If this is so massively important to you both, I don't think having children together would be the best idea as it will just cause conflict (as religion always does!). Whilst he could just see baptism as just water on a babies head, if you choose to raise them brainwashed by the bible, then I think that would be very unfair to your husband and will cause a divide between him and his offspring and i am of the opinion that your children should be allowed to choose for themselves. You can teach them morals and standards without having to involve the bible.

Religion does not always cause conflict, particularly if both follow the same faith.

The problems begin when people follow different faiths, or one follows none.

Please don't use this discussion as a "religion bashing" thread - that really has no place on this forum.

How and where has anyone posted on here and bashed religion, we havent... It has been an adult and mature discussion.. you may WANT it to go down that route just so that another argument occurs but this time unfortunately we/I are not play into your hands.

When terms like "brainwashing" and statements like "religion is the source of all conflict" are bandied around, that to me is religion bashing and I find it offensive.

Nope, you just want to start another stupid argument and then walk away rubbing your hands together as a job well done as per the norm, unfortunately.

I'm not bashing religion, simply stating that I am of the opinion that nothing good can come of it. My opinion, like I said. I'm not saying I'm right and you are wrong, it's just my opinion. it does cause conflict too, whether you choose to acknowledge that is up to you, but I'd strongly suggest you look at the majority of wars in the world and then come back to me.

If any of you have stuck to the bible rigidly then fair do's, but a lot of so called christians these days, tend to pick and choose which bits of the bible they wish to adopt into their lives, which to me is hypocritical, what's the point?

I never said religion is the SOURCE OF ALL CONFLICT. Lol!

@ Angiemace... please do not rise to him, its exactly what he wants and does this an awful lot on threads that are going along in a mature and adult manner...

KBS - AJ was quite right in calling this one. The previous post had used terms like 'brainwashing', which I would agree is offensive and just not really appropriate on a wedding planning forum! I'm not religious at all (thats my personal choice). But I do think we do all have the right to our own opinion. I think some people are trying to turn this into more than it is- this shouldn't be a debate on religion, it's about the OP asking for advice.

I would just like to say - sorry for coming on here and causing what I seem to have caused to be an argument. I didnt know where else to turn and I have always been given good, open minded opinions before now xx

I don't know how everyone else feels but i think it's totally naive of a couple to enter marriage without discussing the future, this includes children and how they should be raised. Despite the children not being born yet, if and when they do arrive, if the parents aren't agreed then there will be conflict which can lead to a broken marriage.

I'm a practising Christian and I totally respect the veiws of those who do not believe in God. However, as a Christian, I would never compromise my beliefs and expectations for my future for anyone, and yes that includes the man I love. People place varying degrees of severity on things depending on their passion for them. For example, if you were totally against cruelty to animals and your OH decided to start working in an abattoir then this could be make or break for your relationship, married or not. So I think it's essential to discuss everything before marrying or entering into a serious relationship with anyone.

I hope that you and your OH find a way to work things out as splitting with someone you love is not easy. However, I would suggest that if he or his family continue to disrecpect your values and beliefs that you consider, as previously mentioned, what is more important to you.

I'll be praying for you both.

x

Do not be sorry and you shouldnt have edited your last post... I read it and it was very mature!

I do think however that tempers are still up between you both and maybe after a few days or so then sit down and have that talk, right now, reading between the lines I dont think your fiance is ready to talk immediately as he is probably still a little angry/hurt etc just as you are but I do hope that it will work out and as 2 mature people as I'm sure you are, you will be able to do this.

p.s... re-write your last post and put it back on here.. it made a lot of sense!

I have seen the effects for myself, that's why I termed it brainwashing, certain people I know who do not have the ability to think for themselves outside of what the bible says. I understand this is probably the more extreme case, but unless you are fully committed to everything the bible says, I don't see the point personally.

Apologies if this offends anyone, it was not my intention and like I repeatedly said, it is just my opinion.

As for the original post, I am truly sorry that you are going through this conflict with your partner, but as other posters have said, this is something which really needs to be sorted way before you tie the knot and I hope you can. Religion is a very contentious issue. How did he agree to it all if he felt so strongly? If he has been okay with it all along, it's unfair to change his mind now, but better he does now than after you are married. At least you now have the opportunity to evaluate what is more important to you.

It's not your fault Em - religion is one of those subjects where everyone has their own POV. Even Glee did last night!

I was firmly on Kurt's side...

Wow, ok there's like a whole new discussion in the time it took me to write my previous post (why, why, why can't hitched work better on iPhones! Takes ages to write a few sentences grr!). I don't want anything to do with a debate on religion and between certain members, but I do think some posts have been mis-read and taken out of context a bit. Ok then, back to point of the whole thing. OP, I think you and your H2B need to just sit down away from everyone and have a frank discussion. You need to explain how it makes you feel when he belittles your faith. You shouldn't have to put up with texts and snide remarks. Maybe it would be a good idea to really discuss all the big things- ie do you share the same moral system and do you want the same things in life? That's more important to establish at the moment than christenings of potential children.

I agree completely. Although the OP brings up a religious viewpoint and difference of opinion, the principle of what matters to you both most is universal across all subjects.

I'm sure most of us have opinions on all sorts of things that we aren't bothered that our partner thinks differently about them, but certain things people aren't prepared to compromise on, and I don't think that's necessarily out of order. Ultimately though it's up to each of us to decide individually which is the more important, the issue or our partner, and whilst we can ask for advice, the final decision is our own.

AJ Im not being funny but so far, people have given their views and made me realise everyone is entitled to theirs whether it is what we agree or not. Not one person has said anything which has been 'offensive' trust me I would have taken it as offence it if was.

Not to be too blunt but if you cant put a fair point across instead of 'nitpicking' at what indivual posters have put, then please dont post if you find it that 'offensive'

Thanks

Thanks to all the posters who have posted after my last reply - you have all helped me realise what I already knew that he is entitled to his opinion and I am willing to talk to him however he is now saying he doesnt see how speaking face to face will change anything because neither views will change and we have reached a stalemate. Correct me if Im wrong but reading between the lines he is beasically saying he doesnt even want to try and compromise.

x

I'm a practising Christian and I don't find it offensive! Mainly because I believe that your experience of hypocrisy and brainwashing is simply that....your experience. I have many experiences of non-Christians who are hypocrites and brainwashed but I tend not to make these generalised veiws form my opinion of individuals.

I think that this is always going to a touchy subject but we should all remember that we're not here to critcise other for what they do or do not beleive but to offer practical assitance to those who need it. There have been many threads that I've chosen not to comment on as i feel that I don't have the experience or the answer to acheive the desired outcome of the Original Poster and that is to seek help and advice, and no that doesnt mean being fluffy but it does mean being constructive.

x

Yeah it doesn't really sound like he wants to compromise at all. How long have you been together? (I ask because I'd hate to see a long term relationship break up over not talking). I hope you can work it out or at least come to a solution where you are both happy.

I'm sorry but I am an eternal optimist and think that, at the moment, he doesnt want to talk as emotions are running high between them both and maybe he just wants some time out to calm down before they talk things through... rather than putting a target over his head already by saying that he has already made up his mind not to compromise..

Maybe I was out of order before, but again, it was just my opinion - again sorry if it was offensive - I've got lots of religious conflict occurring in my life, so I feel quite strongly about it's detriment to young people. I understand this is not always the case, but I can only go from personal experience as you say.

Em - I sincerely hope that you and your fella can talk things through. If he is not willing to talk to you about it, remember you deserve better than that. Be strong x

That does sound like what he is saying - for now. Hopefully once you have both calmed down over it then you will be able to try again.

Did I read that you only just got back together at Christmas? Have you resolved the issues from why you split up before? Could it be that this is just really a continuation / extension of previous problems? I don't think I'm explaining that well but say you split up over issue A and then got back together agreeing to put it behind you that he hasn't really so him being so closed re speaking about issue B is really him thinking about issue A still?

I hope that makes sense! And I hope that the two of you can talk things over and resolve this one way or another to allow you both to be happy.

Me and OH have had many debates recently about this subject. He is a Christian (although non-practising) and I am an Atheist. He's known that from the moment we met but religion is not part of our day-to-day lives so it hasnt really come up in conversation much in the past.

I have agreed to get married at his family church as I know how much it means to him, but we didnt really have a proper indepth conversation about it as I just knew how important it was to him so I told him I would. A few weeks ago we got talking about the ceremony and I was saying how I was nervous about the meeting with the vicar, and it came out that he'd assumed that as I didnt believe in God it meant that I wasnt really bothered about religion i.e. it wouldnt really matter to me where we got married. When I explained to him that my non-belief is very much 'a belief' in its own right he felt quite upset at himself for dismissing my belief so quickly. We agreed that we probably should have had this conversation a long time ago, but now I think he realises how the church ceremony is going to be hard for me to do and he appreciates what I am doing more, rather than just assuming it didnt matter to me either way where I got married.

What I am trying to say is that have you sat and considered that his non-belief is also a belief in itself and just because you do believe that does not make your beliefs any more important?

But all that aside, I do think he is acting like a child himself at the moment (not wanting to meet) which suggests that maybe this is all an excuse for him to cause a problem between you?

I definitely think your number one priority is to ask yourself if this really is the man you want to spend the rest of your life with.

Some good points raised there. Also, I have to say, i think you and I have the same engagement ring!!

My OH acted a bit like yours at the start of our relationship (not wanting to talk after an argument) but after I pretty much tracked him down every time and made him talk about it he slowly began to realise that in every argument compromises can be made. He now, thankfully, doesn't do this anymore, so there is hope ?

You pretty much have to force him to talk to you or this issue will never get resolved. Ask him if he needs more time, but if not then you have to take control of the situation. I used to e-mail my OH when this stuff happened and it really helped us to both put forth what we wanted to say coherently and meant that the other person could clearly understand what we meant. I hope things work out ok.

We have been together 3 years this May and this is why I am so upset about the whole thing and feel that for almost 3 years I have been living a lie.

Yeah we split up at Christmas but all we ever argue about are the major decisions - house, wedding, religion, kids.

He didnt want to rent before buying a house, I did however I have gone with his decision.

I wanted a small 2 bed house and to work our way up - he wants a 4 bed, drive, big garden etc so we have compromised on a 3 bed if possible.

I think the posters who are asking me to ask myself the question are right. At first, he was my best friend and when we are together we are best mates, companions and make each other laugh, however when we argue I almost hate him and that isnt healthy but i do not know how to overcome that.

xx