Photos in the dark.

I had a candlelit winter wedding - i can't really give advice and we haven't got the photos yet but just wanted to say that our photographers said it really wasn't an issue.

And just to say that it felt every bit as romantic as we hoped it would. amazing!

It`s very much this area of photography that separates off the willing amateurs from the pros. I hop your friend has a pro spec camera - if canon he`ll need a 5dmk2 or a 7d or if Nikon a D700 or D3/4 to get decent shots at low light levels. Prepare yourself for noisy images if they have not got a good low light camera. They can still look good, especially converted to black and white or with some decent noise reduction software they might be able to improve things if prepared for a loss of detail. Trouble is many will just slap a flash on and kill the atmosphere. They need to work with flash modifiers if they need more light or get skilled in bouncing the flash light or using off camera flash. Trouble is no-one can give a third party a lesson in delivering quality photos in low light in a forum response. I`d say if you want to value your photos of the day get a professional in. A key point is that the church might not allow use of flash as it is seen as disrupting the service - make sure you check for your friend and watch the colour drain if his camera will find it hard to cope!. As for the reception - however small a decent photographer will get shots to cherish. I shot a wedding recently where 93 people crammed in and around a small village cricket pavillion bar. Got a group shot from the top of a garage roof and got loads of little detail shots of table decs/ kids playing in small groups and couples posed. My most successful poses were couples shot against the peeling green wall of a disused garage next door. As I said a good photographer with some experience will always find a way. I just hope your friend is good enough to deliver and wish you luck.

Thank you for your advice I will pass it on to my friend. He is a keen amature and belongs to a club. He did say that he is going to do some practising. There is no photography allowed during the service but the vicar is happy to stage any shots afterwards. I guess we should look at unusual shots. Thanks

OMG a very tricky situation for the un-experienced - unfortunately he will have to get it right first time and its a very difficuklt to manage without the right gear, like the photographer above (great advise BTW) mentions this really does seperate the amateurs from the pro's, and by amateurs I mean someone who has never photographed weddings before. He'll need a fast prime lens or at least one the fast zoom lenses (+£700), with as low a focal point as he can afford - 3.5 wont cut it, needs to be at least 2.8 and preferably 1.8. Without this he'll need a good steady tripod with a remote release. One of the pro Nikon or Canon cameras would be great as they cope very well when you have to crank up the ISO. A good off-camera flash unit with a diffuser pointed away from the faces will provide some light for your group staged shots. God, this does sound all negative, I dont mean to but really its a situation that most professional wedding photographers dread - and for good reason!!!

There has been some good advice already on this thread. As mentioned the proverbial "fast glass" which is large aperture lenses. F1.2 or F1.4 helps even more. There is also the use of off camera flash using remote triggers which can be dialled down to balance the available lighting. There are also some who use Pag Lights or similar to "lift" the lighting on the couple without ruining the ambiant mood of the location.

Peter

I had a wedding a Hedingham Castle which was candlelit and the darkest wedding I've ever worked in.

A decent camera is a must. Their camera must be able to go to ISO 6400 and have a lens that at opens up to F2. Whilst Peter's advice is sound you wouldn't want to have 1.2 or 1.4 because the plane of focus is so small a large area wiil be blurred (hence the High Iso needed).

If they don't have this then the shutter will have to be slowed down so much the images will blur.

If your friend doesn't shoot in manual mode or doesn't know what the above means then you need to get a pro or at least accept that because of the ceremony you've chosen you will lose out on the photos during the ceremony.

Candelit ceremonies push the limits of the the pro cameras, even the latest ones.

An idea would be to get a pro togs basic package for your ceremony then your friend can do all the getting ready pics and the reception pics.

The shallow depth of field would be true, although using a f1.2 or f1.4 lens, it allows you to then stop down a couple of stops which not only restored the DOF, it improves the effectiveness of the lens and quality of the image. Quite often the "faster" lenses also has moreblades in the aperture ring which gives a far nicer look to candles lights.

Peter

Edited to add:

I came across this website this evening which explains fairly well what the OP was asking (and sort of what I was getting at as well)

http://enchantingkerala.org/digital-photography-school/advantages-of-using-a-fast-lens.php

Tbh, I wouldn't use a friend at all. I think the Op needs to bite the bullet and get a Pro (and one that knows what they are doing) before they regret this decision for years to come.

@ Op

No offence to your friend, but wedding photography is hard enough anyway for the inexperienced (just belonging to a camera club means nothing), and you have a very challenging wedding for him/her to do, add to that your friend will likely also be nervous, makes for a recipe for total disaster.

P.s.

This is ignoring the usual caveats such as backup gear etc.

My advice would be to find out the experience of the friend. Do they have a pro camera, or a £200 compact?

Perhaps see what they have done before. We've been to weddings where a family friend was obviously out of their depth and welcomed some advice.

They may not realise how tricky these low light shots will be, and would feel terrible if they were blurry or blown-out due to flash.

You may find they already know what they are doing - perhaps they have the right gear and knowledge.

There are some fantastic keen amateurs out there who have no interest in going commercial.

I concur with the others - and if the friend is not experienced in this, you need to find someone who is (or re-think what shots you need).

Personally I would say the advice is not for you to ask, nor should you be having to give this back to your photographer.

I don't mean this in a rude way, but its like asking I've got someone to make my dress, can anyone give me any tips to use a sewing maching I can pass onto her?

If you are booking someone to provide a service, then you should be booking someone with the relevent skills to carry out the task. If you don't feel that person has the skills or equipment needed, then you really need to get someone else.

I agree with this. I am not a tog but I can give you some of my experience. We didn't have a candlelit wedding, but we kept our tog on for the evening and I'm glad we did. His photos of the dancing in the evening are gorgeous whereas 99% of the guest photos didn't come out at all. I have a couple of uncles with decent amateur cameras and years and years of photography experience and they couldn't capture the evening. This is because my pro tog understood how to work around the lighting and darkness. If you value the photos of the ceremony, I would hire a professional. Sorry if this sounds harsh but I don't want you to regret it if you end up with no photos of your ceremony.

I would really listen to the advice given by the photographers. Low lighting is the biggest challenge for any professional photographer the ways to make the most of it is quality equipment, a good eye and creative ability. For me I love capturing low light images especially with candles and ambient lighting because of the atmosphere you capture in the photo but this is challenging and for an amateur who hasn't photographed in this setting before they will really struggle. Equipment wise I have spent thousands on mine to insure that I have the ability to do my best by my couples which as a professional wedding photographer is expected.

Just be careful with using a friend as well because they will be there as your guest as well as photographer so they won't as on the ball as a professional who is there to do a quality service and with the fact that you won't get an opportunity to get these photos ever again maybe having using a professional on one of their basic packages and your friend for the rest is a good option to explore.

Another thing your friend could do is a photo workshop specifically about dealing with low lighting, but again if they haven't got the equipment you won't get the quality and creativity a professional will be able to offer.

Best of luck

I think Tracy must be getting scared of looking in now. We can talk about the equipment / skills needed to make a good job of this difficult set up using our own experience but we have to recognise she has made her choice based on her own budget and will be living with that choice. All I would say Tracy is accept this offer of help from your friend for what it is - an offer to assist in getting you the best images they can manage with no guarantees given. I hope they manage to capture some decent shots for you to remember your day but don`t fall out over it if they struggle. It is a difficult task that is underestimated by many. Good luck.

I recently read this - it's quite illuminating (pardon the pun!)

https://www.rocknrollbride.com/2012/01/should-i-book-a-professional-wedding-photographer-or-get-a-friend-to-do-it-for-free-a-cautionary-tale/

God Nubbin, those photos are so awful. I would be in tears.

I just cannot imagine how someone can hand photos like that over and be pleased with themselves or at least think its acceptable.

It's the one with the chicken. WTF?!

I can not imagine the disappointment someone would feel receiving photos of that poor a quality after their wedding. You only get one opportunity to get these photos once and they will be the ones you show your children and grandchildren, its underestimated how important they are. Hiring a professional will cover all the things you might not think need doing such as.....

A chance to sit down and discuss what you as a couple want from your photos. For example do you want more natural/reportage photos or do you really want to focus on the more formal shots. Are you having a vintage wedding and would love to have a vintage style of editing to your pictures in post-production.

They will visit where you are having the ceremony and the reception venue so they know prior to the wedding what type of lighting they are dealing with and where best to postion themselves for the ceremony, speeches etc.

Most will do a pre-wedding/engagement shoot so you get a chance to see how they work with a camera and get comfortable with them before the day.

They will ask you for a schedule of your day and lists of all the group shots you want with which friends and family members on them so the formal photographs are done quickly and smoothly allowing for your guests to get on with enjoying themselves and celebrating your day!

They will have the correct equipment to insure the photos are of the highest standard and they can deal with challenges such as low lighting.

They will also have insurance, you should never hire a photographer without it!

Highlighting what was said before though if Tracey's friend is really passionate about photography, has decent equipment and wants to do the absolute best he can for her there is no reason why using a friend can't work. As long as Tracey and her friend work together to make sure that everything is organised before the day and she has seen their previous work and loves it she should go for it. I started by doing friends weddings in the interest of building my portfolio and now 3 years on its a full time business for me.

A friend of mine fell into this trap, as a relative offered to shoot her wedding for her. The photos are not as bad as the ones in that article, but they aren't that good. She is very disappointed with them and doesn't really show them off at all.

Thanks, I'v been trying to find that article again for a while but couldn't find it...

Its not simply having the equipment, its the art of knowing how both to use the equipment combined with artistic delivery. To equate to your sewing machine example....I have a football, although having one doesn't make me David Beckham...(Although I slightly edge him on the looks front)?

Peter

I take 72 AA batteries for the flashes alone, 12 for each flash, 6 flashes. Each flash is £350 and that's before the stands, external battery packs and the £200 triggers for each one and they are all manually set, no auto modes....

I love chinese lanterns at weddings they make wonderful atmosphere and beautiful photos!!! Just watch the wind this lot managed to set a tree on fire!

Unfortunately it happens all the time, but by the time the B&G realise their mistake it's too late.

I think it happens so often because most people don't realise what it takes to take great pictures, as the most important factor by far is the skill of the photographer, many many people underestimate this and incorrectly divert all the credit to the camera.

I cannot tell you how many times I'v shown someone the back of my LCD and they've said "Wow, you have an amazing camera" when in fact what contributed most was the person behind the camera.

The truth is, expensive equipment is not necessary, but simply a luxury that makes life easier. The reason is because even today's entry level DSLR's are 'good enough', and yesterdays midrange are still plenty good enough, for instance a 5D classic + couple of cheap prime lenses + cheap flash + Tripod is more than enough to obtain very very high quality results.

In contrast, consider the different thought processes of an inexperienced photographer Vs an experienced photographer.

They are similar to learning how to drive. For instance, I can practically drive on 'auto pilot' and not have to think about changing gear, indicating, checking my mirror etc. it just happens on it's own. This allows me to divert more attention on what other drivers are doing. However learner drivers will drive allot slower, be more hesitant and make more mistakes. Basic tasks that allot of us take for granted is very difficult for them, like "where is 5th", or "what gear am I in now" and the driving instructor will have to remind them to check their mirrors etc.

In a similar fashion, an inexperienced photographer likely won't be able to consider many factors at all, other than aim the camera at the subject and rapidly press the shutter button in the hope that a few may turn out ok.

An experienced photographer will consider allot more factors when taking a picture, simply because most aspects are calculated as if on 'auto pilot'.

These might include some of the following: but also many other factors.

a) Exposure

Lighting conditions can often be very challenging, sometimes there is not enough, sometimes there are big differences in light intensity, sometimes the ambient light is just ugly.

b) Composition

The photographer will be looking for good angles, they will be trying to minimise distracting elements within the scene, and they will also want to choose flattering camera angles, as well as assess the direction and quality of light.

c) Subject interaction.

If the photographer isn't confident, then the subject won't be and this shows in the pictures.

d) Story telling

Observing all the little but important interactions of the B&G + guests but that are often forgotten. Setting the scene with a wide angle lens, then zooming in for a more intimate feel. Capturing all the important little details that the B&G especially the B, spent hours carefully choosing.

With the right photographer - images in the dark can look stunning!

^^^

While that's a lovely shot, the photographer the clever enough to use a wide angle lens that will allow a slow shutter speed and thus minimise camera shake and subject movement.

The subjects don't appear to be moving much if at all, but if they were walking down the isle for instance, that would mean the photographer would be forced to increase the shutter speed and the sensitivity of the sensor which will also increase noise and grain (which isn't the end of the world tbh), however if the photographer didn't know to do that in advance, you would end up with blurry images, and allot of inexperienced photographers could easily make that mistake even when not under pressure.

I'm clueless about photography - I just really liked that shot

My partner's a wedding tog, and he is constantly banging on about light.

Can i offer a dual perspective as both an amateur photographer and a bride who has asked family non professionals to do our photos? Because its really not just about the equipment you have.

First- I have asked a cousin and an uncle to both do photos for us. Both have years and years of experience in photography, doing weddings, fashion, events, family parties etc. They are both brilliant at doing other people's photos. In fact my uncle is often booked out for a small fee to do friends' weddings. If you really want your friend/family etc to do the photos ask to see their photos. Look through hundreds. Try to look for things you like and things you don't. Treat it with the same process you would when looking for a professional photographer. I am lucky enough to have seen thousands of photos taken by both my cousin and my uncle and have confidence in them. However, my PiL offered to pay for a photographer instead as they were worried about the photos being rubbish and I fully understand why, especially going off those photos Nubbins just posted.

Which brings me to my second point. I am an amateur photographer. If I do so say so myself, i'm not bad at capturing landscapes/architecture/nature/animals/unusual scenery. However, I am absolutely pants at photographing people, and making those photos both flattering and interesting to look at. Its not an easily transferable skill. I know nothing technical about light/dark/position of shadow and sunshine and indoor lights and so often my photography involving those things is an actual experiment and it can be really hit and miss. Just because I can get a pretty decent shot of a duck in the snow or a brilliant beach scene doesn't mean it would look half as good just because you stick a bloke in it and it could be the same for your friend. Be aware of that.

As I said above look at their pictures. Get solid proof that they know how to a) capture people in their shots b) know how to work with light/dark c) know how to compose a picture with both in it without resorting to flashes that will wipe the colour and atmosphere out of a shot.

@ Nubbins

Along with expression, the quality of light can make a huge difference.

You made some really great points, although with regards to flashes, I think they have a bad reputation from wedding photographers who don't understand how to get the best from them and either kill the ambient light, or they use it in such a way that looks like a point & shoot flash. Even photographers who know to bounce their flash still use the flashes white fill card, which is like using bare direct flash & bounced flash combined, which imo is only half as bad as bare direct flash.

But when used properly imo, flash can add, rather than take away. Below are a few shot's from a single flash 'on-camera'.

Rhys, I meant flashes in the hands of an amateur, which you cover with some of your points. I would expect a professional wedding photographer to know how to use them. But I have seen amateurs let loose with a flash in low light and the results can often be awful. I've done it myself and made silly mistakes with a flash.

I love your photos by the way.

Tbh I think that also too often applies to 'professionals' unfortunately...

Thanks for the compliment, and as for your 'flash mistakes', I don't think it would take you long to get good with using flash, there are plenty of photography forums to get all the free help you need.

But aside from that, I'm with you, in that I generally prefer to use ambient light...