Poss sens... For those who choose not to have children

I'm in a very similar position to you and have had very similar thoughts.

We (my H and I) have decided it's inevitable that friendships will change (I'm going to lose after work drinking buddies) but that we just need to make more effort to get together. Neither of us hate children, we just don't see ourselves as parents. And we love visiting our friends and their characterful kiddies!

We're the ones who tend to travel to friends now as it's so much hassle to pack the baby up for a weekend/night away. I think the risk is there to let friendships wane, but with a bit of effort they can continue.

Social events will change and plans will need to be made around children, but it doesn't stop things happening.

Hope you can get your thoughts straight.

i agree with that. however, i cant help but start to feel annoyed about it as it inevitably means that one of ius has to drive all the time. when we suggest they come to us, it always falls into the "too difficult" category and thats beginning to grate, esp as i like to cook, and they are mostly crap cooks ?

Luckily (or not) most of our mates with kids are far enough away to make staying the night the more practical solution and they all have spare rooms.

And the ones closer by who are due to have babies later in the year, we can get the last train home if we really don't want to drive.

I can imagine the cooking might grate.

I don't think you're thinking too much - I wish everyone thought this hard when deciding whether to have children. As Alison76 says, your friendships will change. Your friends who have children will have changed priorities and therefore your relationship with them will change. It might be down to you to put more effort into getting together, but it might not. Some friendships may fall by the wayside, others may thrive. There's also the chance to make new friends out there too.

I've never wanted children and am more than happy with my husband, dogs, paid work and voluntary work. I don't hate kids and so am happy to spend some time with my neices, nephew and children of friends. I'm just very glad to hand them back and return to my peaceful life. Some people hassle me about my choice, particularly as I'm getting on a bit now, but it's my life and my choice and I'm very happy with it.

Shout if you have any more thoughts ?

We don't want kids and like you most of our friends have started to have families. I never wonder what my life will be like without children though, I kind of expect to go on as it is: pretty happy!

We have found that some of our friends with young children have become the kinds that can only talk about children, nappy rashes, and generally don't want to do anything without their kids. Luckily, we also have friends who aren't anything like that and pretty much continue to have a life outside of the kids, go out and on vacation when it suits, ... (although it is becoming mroe difficult for some as the kids have started school).

The other thing we have found is that we got new friends, either like minded (the I don't want kids kind) and some that have older children (teenage and already moved out of the house age). With these it's easier to get together.

We do fear that we are loosing touch with some of the friends with kids. One couple in particular, they just don't get out anymore and because their whole world now revolves around the baby, we don't seem to have any common ground anymore. They also don't seem comfortable with our resolve not to have kids and seem disappointed that we don't take an extreme amount of interest in their kid. Maybe in a few years time, when the kids have grown up a bit, we'll be able to get together again. But I'm not lying awake at night about loosing friends with kids.

I have no desire whatsoever to have children and Mr WT feels the same way. We are 35 and 37 respectively so definately in the age bracket where the majotity of people our age have children. We are lucky though in that out of all our friends only one has a child. The friend with the child isnt a particularly maternal type and doesnt bore anyone with details of how her little girl is etc etc. She can be difficult to pin down though to do stuff because of her child, but they will try thier hardest to do thier share of driving to us etc.

All our other friends are just like us, mid to late 30s with no plans to have children either. I realise though that this isnt the 'norm'. I suppose we are very lucky in that when we arrange to do any thing we are all pretty easy going with arrangements.

I fully expected huge changes once everyone got married and settled, but our social lives together seem just like they used to be.

We do have children, and TBH trying to continue the non-child socialising takes a lot of effort. Alison's post made me want to cry - she's clearly such a thoughtful friend. I have to say, one of my child-free friends is like this, and because of her effort, I really try to show her how much I appreciate it. We alternate visits - yes, it's a PITA taking 2 toddlers to their small 2 bed flat - mainly because it takes us 1.75hours to get there (plus toilet breaks for eldest [roll eyes]), and then we have to watch them like hawks to ensure they don't trash the place. BUT we do it, because they are so good at making the effort to come and see us.

One issue if you have friends throughout the country is that trawling a family around is quite difficult - they're unlikely to sleep well in a new environment, and it's quite rare that a friend will have enough space for the 4 of us, hence why they may suggest you go to them more often.

I think you're right to be thinking about this - your friendships WILL change, but also don't forget to continue to offer socialising without the kids every now and then - I love my girly lunches where I come up to London for the day to see my friends, have lunch, and then come home in the evening - the 5 hour travel is worth it for a glimpse of my old life for just 1 day every now and then.

I'm coming at this from a different viewpoint (as I'm currently 14 weeks pregnant), but it occurs to me that I have friends in all sorts of situations. My best friend isn't in a long term relationship and doesn't really want her own kids (although wouldn't object to step-children and loves her friends' babies); I have a friend from college who had a daughter when she was 19, and although we drifted apart for a while, now her daughter is older, she's able to do much more and we've had a few raucous nights out. Finally, we have friends with two little ones, who, admittedly we tend to drive over to see, but we'll sometimes cook and take it with us, and they have had us stay over so we don't have to drive back.

I guess what I'm saying is that friendships change over time, and people do come in and out of your life, but I've always found that the friendships that endure these changes are the ones really worth having.

It's a tricky one, especially when friends move out of London when they start their families. Fortunately we have lots of friends who are in the don't-want camp, and for the rest, I more or less accept that the friendship will change or even be lost, at any rate in the short term.

I know what you mean about looking ahead to one's future. If I were to have children now, I would be nearly 60 by the time I emerged from the mothering experience and my children were at university or ready to lave home. I don't regard those years as lost to people who do have children, but I can't help seeing them as a kind of bonus for people who do.

Also, my financial situation is terrible at the moment, and would obviously get worse if I had children. As it is, it will get better and hopefully in the years to come I'll be able to have things like nice clothes and holidays while I am still young enough to enjoy them (which is not to say that people in their 60s can't enjoy travel, obviously!).

My H and I aren't having children and I was 24 when he had the snip so we made the decision early on.

We have a few friends who are the same as us and child-free and if I'm honest these are the people we tend to see the most of as a couple. Some of those friends may well have children in the future and I'd say that as they are established friendships they won't really change.

We have lost friends along the way. Some friends have had children and dropped us like a hot potato. I do get upset sometimes as child free tends to equate to child hater so they assume we don't want to be around the children and therefore stop including us in things. Other friends have frankly turned into baby bores and talk about nothing else so we see less of them ?

One of my oldest friends I actually see a lot more of since she's had a child as she no longer works and we meet for lunch once a week. Sometimes that's with baby, sometimes not.

I suppose the point is, if the friendships are good then you will make it work and make the effort to see each other. You have things in common now and there's no reason for that to change. Children or not you naturally lose friends along the way and make new ones. I haven't actively sought our child free friends but I do have a lot and maybe that's because we have that as a common ground.

As for what you do with your life, I'm the opposite, I actually have no idea how people have children and find time for anything else. Like you I have dogs and we do a lot with the dogs which I love. My one worry is who will look after me when I am old but I am being really nice to my nieces and nephews and I'm hoping they will take me on as their mad Aunt ?

Nick - Not sure if this would work for you but I have a friend who loves cooking and is an amazing cook. I can't got to their house as they have 6 cats and I am very allergic so he hosts a night here. He either cooks something that can travel (he makes amazing curry) or takes over my kitchen for the afternoon and we go out and leave him to it. It works really well for us and it's a way that he gets to hosts a meal once in a while.

Also from a different viewpoint here, as the mother of an 11 year old. Yes, parents do become a bit baby obsessed when they're small, but that's nature I think and, believe me, you soon get bored of them ?

If your friends are largely in the baby / small child camp then things WILL change. Parenrs generally start to become a lot less bothered about the intricacies of their daily lives and you start to become yourself again (meaning you get your mates back). Older kids are much more mobile, more people offer to babysit and generally require much less attention. The visit to Planet Baby is usually a temporary experience in my experience.

(PS as the mother of a small child, my fear was that the little one would puke on the carpet / break something etc and this alone was enough to make me shun social occasions, especially at those with grown up houses. This also passes when they become better behaved and less inclined to leak ?)

I have to be honest, my immediate thought when a friend tells me they're expecting a baby is "oh, OK, see you in 18 years then!" ?

H and I are child-free by choice and we've found, over the years, that our friendships have just naturally changed. We don't have any friends with children. I don't really know how this has happened but it's not a big deal. Friends have announced pregnancies and then naturally, over time, their circle of friends has changed as has ours. I've never been upset about it or lost any sleep over it - I've just surrounded myself with new people.

We have moved around the country quite a bit and are planning another move fairly soon but we've never found it difficult to make friends with other child-free couples.

I have two boys, but hope I can join in and add some thoughts?

I agree that the newborn phase is all-consuming and tiring, so from your pov, it's understanble that you think (some/all?) mothers remain that way - but honestly they don't.

I have remained very close to many child free friends, and there was a while where I was aware I was very tied up, now I'm absolutely chomping at the bit to go and visit them. Their homes and social lives are an absolute sanctuary! My children are 4 and 2 and with the help of a supportive husband, I go away for a weekend with my child free friends twice a year, have a night out with them maybe every other month.

My child free friends are very precious to me, and I'm grateful they can give me a break from the monotany of motherhood and help me get some perspective to my child-related woes. If we were only friends with people who lived paralell lives, then I think life would be dullity dull dull.

i see what you mean but i couldnt be arsed. "foreign" kitchen etc, not my own stuff. plus, i want to be the host, and i couldnt do that.

you make a good point about "child free = child hater", lots of people seem to think that. plus, comments are made regularly about "when are you having children?" and my responses become more and more rude as time goes on. i like most of my friends children, and i like playing with them so it baffles me and annoys me when the parents say "but you dont like children" simply on the basis that we dont have any.

I've never been maternal and have no desire to have children so i've never really thought of myself as ever being a parent but I have had the same thoughts as the OP from time to time. Along with the 'what's going to happen when I get old and decrepit" but I guess i'll cross that bridge when i come to it.

We have lost a few friends along the way to 'parenthood' which is quite sad but I guess people drift in and out of your life for a reason. Fortunately most of our friends who have children are still very much the same people and although it means that we have be a little more organised and a little less spontaneous with our arrangements we do see them with and without their children (who by and large are really lovely and good fun). Our closest friends are looking unlikely to have children due to a whole range of issues and so I can see us drifting through life together all the way up to our residential homes.

Very few of my friends have children and we still see them as much as we did previously. admittedly cub is only 15 months, but from six weeks we've been on the road AT LEAST once a month, usually more. we drove to london (2 1/2 hours each way) for an afternoon the other weekend because a friend asked us to visit him, we did it without a second thought.

i do, however, know of some parents who use children as an excuse to never go anywhere or everything being 'too difficult'. it's their loss imo. life is what you make of it.

some friendships will change over time, but that's true of the childfree as well as those with children. my friends are important to me and they know it, that didn't alter the minute i gave birth.

Obv. I have a child but on the point about it being harder to travel with a child/children, I don't really get that, I find that they're quite portable, as long as you're happy to accommodate them in your home then I think that that may be a bit of an excuse. Or if it's planned in advance why couldn't they come to you and leave the children with family/friends if that's feasible? Obv. not everyone has family/friends around them.

Yeah that is pretty outrageous, unless you're skewering the children with pitchforks when the parents aren't looking.

Am a parent but hope I can still add something. I think that relationships and friendships change over time anyway. I'm no longer friends with many of the people I knew at University and who I thought at the time would be my closest buddies forever. By and large that process hasn't been painful, though there have been a few exceptions, as it's just been a gradual, natural change. Now I have C I can see that my friendships have changed a bit again. Because of the all-encompassing nature of parenthood in the early days, I haven't had the opportunity to meet or engage with some friends as I used to do. But then they haven't tried either. Hopefully now I have a bit more flexibility I can catch up with some of them and pick up where we left off.

So yes, things will change as you grow older but (a) it doesn't have to necessarily be because you have children and your friends don't (though that might take some work) and (b) it won't necessarily feel wrong.

Hmm. I only wish my son were more portable. He is nearly 2 and up until about 18 months I happily took him away for weekends here there and everywhere, he was extremely portable. Since then he has developed a dislike of being away from home. He says 'home' constantly, gets very distressed, doesn't eat and worse, pukes up gutloads of milk at regular intervals. I'm not sure he's the norm, but it makes weekends away so stressful, for all of us.

Also, I think when your child is going through a phase of being a little beast that you wouldn't want to inflict on others, when they're at the age where they haven't learned not to manhandle other people's breakable etc, etc, it really puts you off staying with other people. Not that my child isn't utterly delightful. Honestly. But, for me, while we try to do as much visiting of friends and weekends away with him, sometimes, it is too much of a PITA.. Some kids are definitely more portable than others!

I'm another one who is child-free by choice. I'm 29 and all of my closest friends either have children or are about to give birth. I've had some similar thoughts to you in the "will I get left behind" as everyone goes down the child route. For instance, my SIL doesn't invite us to anything anymore (we used to go round for meals, bbqs etc) as she only invites people with kids since she's had 2. I find this really quite hurtful but I've got used to it now. I still make an effort to see a few of my friends but it's bloody hard work, especially when they cancel at the drop of a hat because of some crisis. I understand it, but it does make things difficult. I think the one i've found hardest to deal with is my sister. She gave birth to her 4th child yesterday. The oldest is 6! It's really, really hard to do anything with her now - other than go to her house for a coffee - because they are just such a huge crowd that you can't easily go anywhere! I also find that we get kind of overlooked as all the interest is on her and the "grandkids" but I appreciate that this is my problem and I understand it all. I just can't help feeling a bit left-out sometimes.

Luckily H is, and always has been, my best friend so we don't NEED to go out with other people. But sometimes it would be nice for it to be like it was before ?

I get that too, and as you say, there are only so many times you want to answer the question about when are you have children in a polite way.

But when I play with the kids of friends, I quite often get the "but you're so good with them now" or "see how nice they are" or "you're enjoying yourself with them" followed by "you should really get some too" or "you will change your mind, you will want to have kids too". This has totally put me off of playing with the kids of friends.

That irritates me too - it makes children sound like puppies or kittens. A good friend of mine has a lovely little girl and I love spending time with her, but that's only because I know her, not because I like children per se, or because I'm good with children etc.

Same here, you end up in a no win situation really. If you do take an interest and spend time with your friends children they all start on at you about having some of your own yet if you don't interact with them or even worse ignore them you're put down as some sort of child hater! I have nothing against children particularly and I do enjoy spending time with those of my friends but i have no wish to have children of my own and am always pretty glad to have the peace back once they've gone home.

I hope I am ok to post on this thread, up until 2 weeks ago I was on BT thinking about trying for a baby. However H and I have sat down due to a number of reasons and I am not sure we are a couple that will have children.

I love children, lots of my friends have them and I can honestly say my friendships with them have not changed. My friends though are not all child orientated and are flaming happy talking about anything else but them and wanting a good old catch up on life with a few drinkies.

Maybe things might change for us, but right now I can't see us having any. I have confided in a couple of friends about this, and the immediate reaction is that I will change my mind in a few months/year or they just brush the convo under the carpet.

I really find taking my 2 children to another persons house (without children) a very stressful experience.

If one isnt wetting herself/pooing herself, the other is tearing things off the cupboard, screaming because he cant cope 3 seconds without his mummy in a unfamiliar environment, they both open cupboards and pull stuff out, there is very rarely anything for them to do there (and yes, I take toys but they arent usually interested when there is a load of other things they can destroy).

As for staying the night, my children rarely sleep through the night in their own home, never mind elsewhere. I am usually the only one who is able to settle them so that makes staying the night anywhere pretty difficult. My husband works away alot during the week and is away alot at the weekends too, so I am often forced to take them with me to places that children may not usually go to.

Last time, I took them to meet some friends in a hotel bar on a saturday afternoon. I had nobody to look after them. The hotel manager complained about my daughter and I was in tears when I left. I just feel like I cant do right for doing wrong.

We don't have children, not through choice though. and most of our close friends do.

which so far has worked out as in social situations we go to them. so we've all stayed good friends.

however i do worry thay when we have our children that will be when we lose touch, as they won't be able to return the favour when we have a baby, as they will have child care issues themselves. ☹️

That's like suggesting you should move to India just because you like the odd curry though.

Mine's only small at the moment, but not much of a sleeper, which means we don't stay over with friends, or have them stay over here for long boozy evenings as we used to. We've just moved the activities to lunches out instead. Not hugely relaxing for us, but it's doable and means we get to see our child-free friends now and again.

Well obviously i'm in a minority with my thinking then, but I seem to be in the minority on a lot of issues where parenting is concerned of late. Ho hum.

Kieran - For many reasons we were one of the last in our circle of friends to be parents and I did find it hard. Like you it wasn't a 'choice' for us but I think it would have been the same if we had chosen to have a family later or not at all.

We certainly have found we've drifted apart from other friends with children purely cos we find it hard to go to their house with dd and they find it hard to come to us. However we still keep in touch and have occasional coffee dates at soft play centres midway between cities etc etc but gone are the days of dinner parties and lingering afternoons chatting [sigh].

That said - I have made lots of new friends recently who also have adopted children and can accept my DDs behaviour /anxiety more than my 'normal mummy friends' and are more willing to change plans to suit her needs. THis makes visits to see them much less stressful for me as I am less anxious about how others perceive our family,

We find that our child-free friends are happy to come to us for dinner and one couple even cooked at our house to return the favour when we struggled to get a babysitter! But we do try to make dinner parties after 7.30pm so that DD is in bed and we can have time to be hosts and not just parents.

magenta x

Sunset - no, actually! A lot of your posts on children etc make me hugely glad that there may be people who think like me and have made a decent job of raising children. Your earlier post on enjoying going back to work made me breathe a huge sigh of relief?

Suspect not so much a minority thing as dependent on the individual child and the circumstances.

We take R off to visit friends and relatives but it's hard work when their houses are not compatible with a small child and things like going out for lunch are relaxing for everyone but me because I'm on tenterhooks wondering if R will be model child or some demon from hell and I will be apologising for infinity. If he goes to sleep in an evening, I can relax. If for whatever reason he repeatedly wakes up, then I might as well be tucked up in bed too because I won't get any socialising done.

I hate feeling that I am inflicting R on people - he's lovely but he's 2, he doesn't conform to UK standard manners yet and I have limited ability to make him do so. The older he gets, the easier it will be to resume a social life and see our friends as friends rather than parents. I'm looking forward to this!

I'm also thinking it's much easier to take one child away for a weekend than two or three, especially if you're relying on public transport or travelling with just one parent.

I've followed this thread with interest - I think there's an element of things change, relationships change over time, and having children is just one aspect of that. The problem is that if you're scattered up and down the country the way me and my friends and family are, it takes a lot of effort to organise meets and we don't always have the time or money to do so however much I miss people.

We are Parents, but we moonlight as human's once in a while , so become Mr& Mrs JMP. So that may mean going to a Friends house or meeting out, with both friends who have no kids & those who have escaped the Parent zone.

I think we are all guilty (parents that is) that you can be yourselves without guilt trip, same as being Husband & wife, you need that part too = happy balance.

We have a couple of friend who have no kids , TBH, I don't really ask them why they don't have kids as I view it could be for loads of reasons & it's none of my business, it's like saying why don't you have a dog/cat. They don't come across as child haters & are infact the first to always buy gifts for the kids.

So although we have not got a common ground as Parents, we do still have a common ground as friends .