Really interesting artice re Jamie Oliver's new programme

I also found the cal thing interesting, it really scares me that my children are getting so many mixed messages about eating in school. Cookery in schools is really awful and I have been into school 4 times now to complain about what they are teaching them to cook and on each occassion I have been told, if they ask for several fresh ingredients to be brought in, half the class won't bring them as their parents can't afford to buy the ingredients. They always manage to send a packet mix in though, it just makes me so angry and don't start me on school dinnners etc?

I haven't read the article yet but that programme really shocked me last night. I seriously didn't imagine that there were people who had never once cooked for their children. I can be so naive.

The calorie thing is interesting

but is it really that relevant? it seems a lot of the problems with diet and health are too many calories to start with

it isnt an issue of people physically needing the cheapest calories because they need the energy - perhaps for some - but i suspect not the majority

Been saying this for years.

I genuinely think Jamie Oliver is well intentioned, but he just has totally the wrong attitude.... He "lectures".

Doesn't work.

I think the issue is two-fold:

1. People who are short of money want to feel full, satisfied and have the sense of indulging themselves a bit; when you're not suffering financial deprivation, living on grated carrot and evian water is a lot easier to endure

2. Cheap foods, especially processed foods, are massively higher in calories than any of us need

That's very interesting. I get annoyed at JO's programs because he comes across as being very smug.

I think that's a fair point. Very interesting article indeed and I must say I found the programme equally depressing.

I agree completely. My SIL bought us his book which was supposed to teach the nation to cook. He even manages to lecture in the middle of the recipes, in print... "Now I want to do such-and-such" - which makes me think "No. Don't want to. What if I want to do something else instead?"

The other interesting thing (and it's something I've often ranted about as I experience it myself in a much smaller way) is the issue of travelling to buy food. If you're cash and/or time poor, getting to a butcher/fishmonger/greengrocer/farm shop becomes a real problem, even if the food you get once you're there is cheaper and better quality than what you'dd otherwise eat. Whereas there's a takeaway down the road from absolutely everyone, and an Iceland down the road from just about everyone.

I agree with this. The only food shops I can walk to from where I live is a bakery, which sells lovely cakes, and a Somerfield which has been known to sell rotten veg. The nearest butcher is the other side of a motorway, and I have no idea where a greengrocer, fishmonger or farm shop is. As a result, we buy everything in Sainsbury's which isn't particularly cheap but is, at least, convenient as both of us drive to work and can pass a Sainsbury's without going too far out of our way on the way home.

I think there was some news story this or last week that sales of chocolate bars has gone up recently - as in the Mars Bars or Crunchies rather than organic fair trade top end stuff. Makes sense - money is tight but most people can afford to treat themselves to a choccy bar as a bit of comfort.

Another thing I learnt in the unemployment centre... When working out family budgets you needed to allow for mum's bottle of vodka/Dad's beer/Kid's sweets/Everyone's fags.... Otherwise you needn't waste your time.

At least one 'treat' a week in other words.

Been reading the Daily Mail again ONE?

This is so very true, and a matter very close to home at the minute. Especially since our local greengrocer costs more than Tesco when you actually get there.

We live in a 'socially deprived' area of Belfast, and this is the stuff I see everyday: there are more takeaways round here than anything else. The local Spar seems to mostly trade in crisps and Subway.

I really fail to see how you came to that conclusion.

Please explain.

I've always thought that perhaps those who can't understand why people buy processed food over fresh don't know just how cheap some processed foods/ready meals are. For example you can get a 1.1kg lasagne in Iceland for £2. £2. I don't see how you can make it fresh for less.

Yes you could make a veggie version for less if you buy vegetables at the market and scour the supermarkets for a good deal on pasta but I can see how people don't want to spend the time doing that, and also that if you really are deprived you will go a long way to not feel deprived.

I just feel v lucky that I have the time, money and inclination to eat well (mostly!).

They don't understand. Lifestyles are that different that there is no comprehension. It works the other way round too.

Set someone who's been on benefits long term , with a few exceptions to be wary of, down with a pen and paper and ask them to imagine they have a job and to write out their ideal 'budget' for a year, including socialising and a holiday... I will be willing to bet you that 9 out of every ten people you do it with will arrive at a figure that is below, usually sustantially below, what they would earn on minimum wage....

Just different worlds.

i do understand that

what i dont understand is that some people - and particularly when they are feeding young children - prioritise everything else over the quality of their food

if people are feeding themselves a load of slop that is their choice to make - but to me feeding a 5 and 2 year old on the floor with doner kebab, cheese and sweets on a regular basis is child abuse plain and simple

"They say they can't afford to feed their kids but they're still buying fags" smacks of DMism to me.

Agreed- and I remember myself and ONE trying to get this across to this forum on a number of occasions- most of the people here are well educated and intelligent- but bar us everyone just reiterated you can cook cheaper from scratch, you can get healthy food more cheaply. i still maintain that this isn't the case, and If i recall, when asked to find a home cooked meal as cheap as that weeks offer at Iceland, only one poster could come up with one- pasta, tinned tomatoes and courgettes. I think a massive barrier to change is the ease of the middle classes in reiterating peoele only eat like this because they are lazy or stupid. i think this programme was a really really good way of disproving that and looking at the reality.

That isn't what I said though.

No matter the level of anyone's budget, if you expect them to live without pleasures and draw up that budget accordingly, it will fall flat.

Realise here that we're talking about those who are long term on benefits/low paid. Many of whom will have no realistic prospect of ever being anything else (or at least thet's their perception). So you have to allow for 'pleasures'.

And, this could well be a stereotype, in fact it is... ut said pleasure will invariably be booze/fags/football subscription on Sky eith Pix & mix for the kids. Gym memberships and trips to the theatre are remarkably uncommon.

I'm not sure that it is child abuse. It's certainly a very long way from ideal though. What's hard to understand is that that woman simply wasn't coming from the same position as you or I. If her mother fed her the same way, the gulf between what she's experienced and what she aspires to must seem so vast.

Re the lasagne - you can't make 1.1kg of lasagne for £2. I can't, and nor can Iceland, which is why they adulterate it with all kinds of crap. It's cheap as anything but it's not proper food, and that's why we have an obesity problem.

I misread the tone of your post then, my apologies. ?

Also- I think another issue is in deprived areas, you will always find a Lidl, Iceland, Kwick save (do they still exist) obviously, for marketing purposes Waitrose, or a nice sainsbury, or a Organic butcher is not goign to open in these areas. But it gives a whole community of people who think thats what food shops are all about.

I didn't say he was wrong (he isn't!), but I thought I detected the "give up the fags if you're so hard up" tone in his post; in fact I was wrong.

I truly think it is a form of child abuse - the repercussions are real and tangible even if they take a while to show up - and for many that kind of diet will also impact on their education

i am not unsympathetic to the fact that people may just not know another way - however many people have to learn to parent differently from what they experienced as children

with a generation of obese and ill nourished children i think there should be some more interventions

parents are not allowed to opt out of educating their children - i dont think they should be able to opt out of feeding them properly either

This is set in my home town, I really must watch it as it looks interesting for personal reasons as well as the obvious ones.

The country also pays to have the children educated to minimum standard required by law, at least.

And you're getting into a whole different can of worms. Who sets the standard?

Are you going to shift children to a foster home if they don't get their '5 a day', or if they don't get the proper mix of colours in the 5?

Facetious example, but you should see where I'm going with it.

But the woman in the article had a weekly food budget of £70 ! G&T and I eat like kings on that sort of money.

We aren't just talking about those that are so poor a bag of chips or a £2 lasagne are a luxury - those really are the minority.

What P&P said

we spend £60-£70 a week on food and get all meals for that, including lunch for both of us at work all week. Its not a small sum for food. (I didn't watch the programme so don't know all the circumstances so apologies if there are other factors to take into account).

But surely shes in the minority too? spending 90% of her weekly income on food? buying take aways every single night? I couldn't afford to do that, no. But that doesn't mean that people stocking up in Iceland are all in the same boat as her.

I'll disagree. The £70 budget is the more unusual. Didn't mention it earlier because actually dealing with the subject and the causes is apt to start very bitter arguments. The benefit sytem serves some people better than others. 'Nuff said.