settle an argument for us - rape law

Nope, you're definitely right. There would have been uproar if it had been changed to that!

They'll be "I was right" dancing in the streets of Oxfordshire tonight.

Of course you're right.

Fankoo ?

will lock him in his office if he doesn't admit I'm right as usual stop banging on about it

Definitely, there are a couple of laws where guilt is kind of presumed, but definitely not with rape. It's why it's so difficult to get a conviction.

Rumour has it that Harriet Harman has been suggesting we should move to this model but it's a ridiculous and frankly scary idea.

Really, Hazel? That seems absolutely incredible.

I'd agree if it wasn't Harriet Harman ?

I know there was some discussion on how we could increase the conviction rate but didn't think anything had actually changed.

Sorry, I've rather overegged it there. Harman wants to increase the conviction rate but a barrister friend of mine was ranting today about how, essentially, her reforms are eroding the idea of a fair trial and that behind it he feels she wants to make men convicted of rape prove innocence rather than ensure the prosecution prove guilt. His ranting seems to have worn off on me ?

Whilst I do agree that rape conviction rates are very low, I would not be happy to see an increase in convictions at the expense of fair trial.

Well according to toda's Daily Mail (I was on a train and I couldn't resist looking) Harman is running a huge feminist conspiracy which involves being tougher on rapists and advocating telling children that domestic violence is bad (both of which are wrong and silly headed ideas).

QAPHR ? Did you read Rache's Twitter link today to the Times feminist rant? Really powerful stuff.

I did - and I found it very interesting. I'm not quite sure where I stand on all of it yet. I mean, I'm with her on "empowering" being having a boob job. But I have never bought the idea that waxing or shaving your pubic hair was anti-feminist. It's not necessarily about looking pre-pubescent or like a porn star, though I acknowledge those influences. And I quite like Gok Wan. But it's making me think and the comments are making me very ranty.

I think there's a difference between an individual choice to wax pubic hair (which can be for all sorts of reasons) and a cultural shift meaning that unwaxed pubes are seen as disgusting/abnormal (which I think arguably is happening).

Have just found that Times article and wow ! Yep, it's a pretty strong bit of writing. Am loving the comment in the comment section: "You are telling men it is wrong to be sexually attracted to beautiful young women and you are validating the increasing criminilization of those feelings by feminazis with psycho-sexual hangups." Please let me bang my head, please ? (Maybe better to see the whole comment in context.)

So much more I could say on this, but am running late for work as it is.

I couldn't make head or tail of most of the comments on the article- all written by people who seemed to have read some other piece entirely.

I think that's well put.

The rape laws are really hard - as I understand it, they know that men are escaping convictions for rape, unless something stupid like 95% of women claiming rape are lying, but I can't see how you can increase genuine convictions without being unfair. It's not a good situation for men either though - as it stands, I guess people often continue to have suspicions of men who are found not guilty because it's known how hard it is to convict.

I have a vague memory of some suggestion of creating a new charge for men accused of "date rape" or using a lesser charge as it might be easier for a jury to find men guilty compared with rape which people tend to think of as being done in a dark alley by a stranger. I'm not sure that'll work or would be fair to the victim though.

Well, this has solved one thing - I now know that Mr Layabout still lurks on here (? darling) as he decided to come upstairs, wake me up and tell me "that's not what I meant and you know it" at about midnight last night ?

Yes... yesterday's DM. Vitriolic rant about Harriet Harman's "feminist agenda" in wanting to tell 5 year olds that daddy hitting mummy, or presumably mummy hitting daddy, isn't right even if daddy/mummy says it is. To get to the main article (page 8, iirc) from the front page, you had to go past vitriolic article about Victoria Beckham and airbrushing of pictures. Once again illustrating that the DM's actual agenda is to make sure women feel bad about themselves in every possible situation.

I was a bit stunned that 94% of men arrested for rape are either acquitted or the case is dropped (96% in Scotland) which is what started all this. I just can't accept that nearly all rape complaints are malicious or made by women wanting to cover up having got drunk and shagged someone ill advisedly. Ergo, some of those 94% probably are guilty and the dice are very much loaded against the woman making the charge - wasn't there something about juries still being inclined to see women who claim to have been raped as slutty/having deserved it? Can't remember.

I can't believe it's all malicious or a cover up either - and IIRC, studies have indicated that rape is largely under-reported because women can see there's a lot of stress and pain involved in reporting rape and going through a court case and very little chance of a conviction.