So .... is X Factor a fix then?

No, I genuinely don't think so (though I may be being naive!).

Yes, the judges obviously try to influence the votes and they will certainly always choose their own acts and vote off the competition. But, at the end of the day it is the public votes that count.

After the phone scandal fiasco earlier this year, I can't see ITV manipulating the votes cast.

I just think the majority of people who watch don't actually vote and those who do vote are either biased (because they know them, or they come from their home town etc) or are influenced by sympathy!

After Rachel and Daniel getting through again last week, I for one am going to stop moaning about it and actually start voting.

As for Diana attending a bonfire party, it was laryngitis she had not leg failure.

And yes, I have read Chart Throb ?

How funny I just started to read Chart Throb today!

? It's an amusing read.

Such a funny book, I can't look at Louis now without thinking of his portrayed character.

Reading Chart Throb RUINED X Factor for me!! ?

I don't think it's a fix, no, although obviously the judges can influence who we vote for by what they say - hence the fact that Rachel sang TERRIBLY out of tune and was complimented on her performance. And while the judges stick up for their own acts and vote each other's off "tactically", then it will never be a level playing field and it will never truly be a "fair" competition.

Basically, it's pantomime and we ought to enjoy it for what it is. The decent acts will all get signed anyway regardless of how well they fare (look at all the offers Laura has had this week - a record contract and an invitation to sing with Adele on her next tour?)

Me too! ? Although I think my dislike for him this year is that he seems to have turned into an arse.

I don't think it's fixed at all. I wonder how many of the people who have signed the online petition to bring Laura back actually voted for her in the first place? She was in the bottom two for a reason. Personally I don't agree with what happened on Saturday's show (how the HELL did Rachel get through!?) but it's a game. To be honest, I don't think X Factor is about making a star anymore it's purely about making a TV show (and Cowell lots of money).

? I saw the title and was thinking - must post 'read Chart Throb'!!

One of the most interesting points that Chart Throb makes, to me, is the comment that the judges may not control who is in the bottom two - but they do control who of the two goes out. So theoretically they can keep the least publicly popular act in as long as the finals. There's no need to risk deliberate vote rigging - they just manipulate the voters instead.

I always says to MrMG - I would LOVE to be on the production team - would love to analyse voting patterns in relationship to judges' comments! (MrMG says 'shut up and just watch it, killjoy geek' ?)

To the extent of what Chart Throb describes, yes. The judges have the VTs, the press, the comments they make as well as the song choice and wardrobe choice which can be so so bad. And at the end of the day they choose who goes from the bottom two. I don't THINK the phone vote can be rigged, especially in the wake of the competitions scandal it must be too tightly controlled, but there are ways and means.

Pop Babylon (which is supposedly written with the help of anonymous music industry insiders) also has some theories on XFactor. It also says that it is fixed. It suggests to me that it isn't also necessarily about the winner either. As all 12 finalists sign paperwork with Syco, it is in the best interests of the show and the people taking a wage to create as many cash cows as they can.

I think that as Spacecadet_99 says the votin audience is manipulated by song choices, VT's and judges comments.

The fiasco that has been created over whether or not Laura should have been booted off has kept her profile high and created these offers, which 'ch-ching' Mr Cowell will also get a cut off

Simon only made negative criticism of Laura last week. If Simon gives negative criticism of anyone, they come in the bottom two. It's happened every week so far.

But there could be people who are annoyed at last years phone fixing and could just be voting for the worst person, just for the hell of it and to annoy the panel. This could partly be why John Sargeant is still in strictly, not that I watch that.

Nun-Actually depending on the act, some actually avoid the bottom two even though they get a verbal bashing from Simon, it is usually one of the weaker acts, this year it's daniel (although was in the bottom once), last year it was Leon for the first half of the series, and the year before that it was the McDonald Brothers.

I think he plays it knowing that he can manipulate the voting by doing the above as well

Nah I don't think its a fix. But I do agree that obviously the judges can influence the voting.

Laura went because she was shockingly awful. Affected and screetchy. I don't know anyone in real life who liked her at all (although many online seem to).

I think you might be on your own with that opinion Buggins! ?

If by "fixed" you mean that the votes are literally rigged then no I don't think it is. I really don't think they'd get away with it.

If by "fixed" you mean that crafty little tricks are played then yes I think it is. I think the judge's comments can be incredibly influential. Is suepct that if anyone other than one of the favourites had been ill they would have been told to perform or leave. I suspect that certain weeks certain people are given preference in the song choices and the running order (I can't imagine the situation doesn't occur when two performers want the same song and someone has to decide). I suspect that some of the judges dedicate more time to one of their acts than the others. I suspect that some judges help out other judge's acts if they want them to win. I suspect that the coverage given on shows like the xtra factor favour some contestants over others. And I'm sure it all influences the votes. But as much as it may influence the votes it's not a guarantee and sometimes people vote or don't vote for other reasons. As far as I remember I think it's reasonably common for one of the favourites to go out at this stage (it's certainly happened before) because people don't vote for their favourites thinking they don't need the votes but instead vote for one of the underdogs. The voting system (where you vote for your favourite to stay rather than your least favourite to go) was designed to make people vote more - ie that if they had three favourites they'd vote for all of them but I'm not sure it works that way TBH and that sometimes people with joing favourites don't vote at all

You are the first person i've seen say that ' Affected and screetchy' and I agree completely.

Laura was my favourite all through the audition stages but now she's started doing this wierd thing with her voice that she didn't do before and it's not nice!

She didn't deserve to be in the bottom two and if you took Daniel out of the running for bottom 2 (thanks to Chris moyles) Ruth did deserve to be there (with Rachel). However on the first show the judges said for the final vote would be based on that one last performance and all other opinions would be cast aside, so on that basis (the judges vote) the correct person did leave because Ruth is fantastic when she does her own thing.

I personally won't vote anymore (since the whole phone vote scandal) beacause I do think it is still fixed, whether it's because of dodgy phone lines-people not being able to get through or the judges knowing how much influence they can have over people voting with their opinions i'm not sure.