This JR/RB/Andrew Sachs thing

It's basically that Russell Brand sh@gged Andrew Sach's granddaughter. AS is not impressed that his granddaughter is being humiliated in this way.

It's primarily about the virulently right-wing Associated Newspapers group grasping at any straw they can in order to attack the BBC. I doubt most people were even aware of the fuss before it was splurged on the front page of the Mail on Sunday, and it would be interesting to see the ratio of complaints received before and after the publicity. Personally, I think it's a total storm in a teacup, and I get the distinct impression that Andrew Sachs is horrified at the way he's become a deeply unwilling pawn in all this.

Loath though I am to link to the Daily Mail, they do at least have a full transcript of the "rude answering message" - scroll down to near the bottom if you want to avoid the self-righteous, nauseatingly hypocritical finger-wagging.

Sorry, that was a bit short. RB and JR left a voicemail (live on air) on ASs voicemail mocking what RB did. I believe they went on to joke about it quite a lot in the show.

I think the worst bit of it is that it was pre recorded and therefore could have been cut. They left messages saying that RB had f***ed the granddaughter and that RB had bent her over the sofa, had her on a swing etc etc etc.

Basically AS didn't turn up for a show and so they left several messages on his answerphone, one of which turned into a crude song about AS's granddaughter. I believe JR has written a personal apology to him.

I think it was worse than that, also saying that AS should consider suicide if he was upset by the idea.

The whole thing has become a big deal because unusually it was't even live, when it might be possible the use the "carried away" excuse.

It was a recorded piece which preseumably means it got editorial approval, hence the furore.

And while JR has apparently made a heartfelt sounding apology, RB's starts with "Well it was funny" (or words to that effect) and is very half hearted

It does appear to be in the running for the most complained about 'piece' of the year though.

Look I know the ladies like Russel (although I just think the hippy fecker needs a wash and a good barber) But really, he's funny as dripping syph.

Oh, and what Mr JK said ?

Not that I suppose it makes any difference but for some reason I had pictured his granddaughter quite differently to the girl in that story ?

Yes, the word "granddaughter" does rather suggest freckles and pigtails and a gap-toothed grin, doesn't it? Which isn't quite what we're dealing with here! ?

It was a pretty hideous thing for any grandparent to have to listen to about their granddaughter - I'm not surprised the Daily Mail are rampant about it I feel really sorry for Sachs.

I bet the grandaughter is pretty embarassed at having been used to torment her grandfather like that - I'd be furious about it, even if I didn't care that RB had been indiscreet about our sex life (which I quite possibly would be too!).

I'm obviously becoming middle aged because RB makes my skin crawl - I just want to dunk him under an outside cold water pump and give him a good wash with a stiff brush and carbolic soap. ?

Dealing with... Yes.

Dealing.

One R4 this morning they said there were two complaints on the day it was broadcast, and now they are up to 15,000.

you can hear the whole thing on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7IHJ66wj9g

Should point out that I think it was a tad ill advised but hardly earth shatteringly offensive.

It's deffo not funny though.

I am a big believer in the saying 'you cannot be offended, you can only choose to take offence'. This is a very silly prank being blown all out of proportion, and I've lost a lot of respect for Andrew Sachs for milking this.

The fact that only 2 complaints were made up until the Daily Mail article, then thousands afterwards, speaks volumes IMO. If you listen to Russell Brand you know what you're getting. I thought it was quite funny [shrug]

And I doubt the girl involved (aka Voluptua of the Satanic Sluts ?) gives a toss.

I've not heard it, nor am I interested in hearing it. I've seen enough of it on TV to last me a life time!!

I personally do not find RB or JR funny in anyway so at the grand old age of 23, Zebra & Old Nick, pass me my slippers and pipe please? ?.

If not liking RB makes me middle aged then so be it! He's a Twit that need a good wash and a hair cut!

But that's the point - Sachs wasn't listening to RB, he was the butt of his jokes. And I suspect that RB and JR wouldn't have had the face to be quite so crude about his grandaughter to his face if he had done the show. If he'd actually been interviewed he could have made it clear before and during the interview how much he was and wasn't willing to discuss about his family's sex life and so on but to leave the comments on an answer phone message gave him no come back except to complain.

As I say, I doubt a Satanic Slut will care much about (may even be pleased about the publicity!) about RB discussing her sex life but wouldn't you be cringing if someone was discussing you in such terms with your parents or grandparents?

I don't think this is about the listener's complaints so much as about Andrew Sach's complaints and I can't blame him for doing so.

Edited for clarity!

WSS. I wish the BBC would stop being such a pushover about these things- they clearly thought the programme was ok so why get so mea culpa about it after the event? I hate the way the sanctimonious tabloids milk these things (when they do far worse) and the BBC just takes it. How many of the complainers actually listened to the programme? Very few, I imagine. Are we only to be allowed BBC programming that doesn't offend Mrs Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells, who it wasn't aimed at and didn't hear it?

If AS is offended, that's surely a personal matter between him and the BBC- it should be dealt with privately, not by the Mail printing sexy shots of the granddaughter while simultaneously pretended to be outraged on her behalf.

You've lost respect for Andrew Sachs for milking it? I'm astonished.

I think I agree with Zebra on this.

The thing I'm not really understanding about this is why it would ever be considered acceptable to call someone and leave crude messages about his family members on his answerphone. If someone did that to me and then tried to tell me not to be upset because "it was funny", I wouldn't be amused!

It wasn't prearranged between the parties and the person called wasn't in on the joke as far as I know, though I'm happy to be corrected. I don't care about whether parties involved are famous or whether it was broadcast or not. I just think it's rather out of line to call someone and make rude comments about their family for no apparent reason except a fleeting laugh.

If I was her I would be furious with him for making such a rumpus without speaking to me first. (He freely admits he hasn't discussed it with her).

If he had made no complaint, then this whole silly business would never have happened, the only people who knew would be the listeners to RB's radio show (who would have forgotten about it fairly rapidly) and his granddaughter's sex life would never have been the topic of public conversation the way it is today.

I've heard it and read the transcript and I really don't think it was all that crude TBH. Okay so 'He f***ed your grandaughter' isn't in the best taste, but that was by far the worst bit and, maybe it's me, but I don't find that shocking. It wasn't like he was sat with him asking him about his granddaughters sex life. It was several silly voicemails that I would have deleted on receipt.

I really have no sympathy for the man and his 'poor me' act. Smacks of him attention seeking IMHO.

I'd actually be hugely offended if someone did this to me. Why did they think he needed to know this? OK, as a Satanic Slut or whatever it is, she's hardly in a conventional 9-5 job but it still doesn't make her fair game. I think AS is taking it pretty well, all things considered.

And leaving messages about banging his granddaughter isn't? ?

Why? As I said in my recent post, he freely admits he hasn't spoken to his Granddaughter before making all these public statements. I'd be furious if he were my father/grandfather.

That statement is just a wee tad more amusing than RB's answerphone message.

It was a stupid, misguided prank on a radio show. Hardly on the same scale as splashing it all over a major tabloid.

But don't you think the DM's printing of a transcript along with revealing photos (presumably old pics) of her just adds to it? I can see why AS is pissed off, I could understand if the granddaughter were, but I fail to see how trial by tabloid is the right way to deal with it (as opposed to a private complaint or even legal action) and how papers like the Mail can claim any sort of moral high ground when all they are doing is milking the story and adding to the invasion of privacy.

I don't see why he would need to speak to his granddaughter before stating that he isn't happy about messages being left on his answering machine. It doesn't matter that she's the subject IMO; he was the one who was called and therefore he has the right to respond.

If he was my father/grandfather, I wouldn't be angry at him, I'd be incredibly apologetic for being the reason he was subject to that sort of behaviour from other people, even though it is not my fault.

Please elaborate...

I quite like Russell Brand, but I think Jonathon Ross has been losing his edge for quite some time.

I don't actually care how many complaints there have been about it, either before or after the show was broadcast. To me, the issue is not about the number of complaints at all, it's about the fact that two 'grown men' and, more importantly, very highly paid employees were allowed to repeatedly phone someones answer machine on their show, and leave taunting, ridiculous messages such as: 'he's f*cked your grandaughter', let's sing a song, "it was totally consensual, she wasn't even menstrual"... four times they phoned back to continue slapping themselves on the back with their ridiculous witiscisms.. and this was a pre-recorded show, so the producers presumably reviewed it and deemed it suitable for public entertainment.

As for Andrew Sachs - just imagine coming home - anyone imagine coming home - pressing play on your answer machine and hearing that drivel... how stunned would you be? I'd be shocked first, and then absolutely livid... and then to find out that it's been broadcast ?

The fact that the grandaughter in question looks like Marilyn Manson's sister rather than someone from the little house on the prairie, and is in a burlseque show, does, thankfully, lead you to believe that she's the sort of girl who will use the exposure to her advantage - but thank god for that... Just imagine if she wasn't - I'm sure JR and RB didn't care either way.

WSS. The thing that really sticks in my craw about this whole issue is that while Jonathan Ross and Russell Brand undoubtedly behaved badly, for the Daily Mail to bleat about them "bullying" a poor defenceless man is a bit like a Russian oil baron accusing a petrol pump attendant of getting above himself when he decides to plough his meagre savings into buying a petrol station of his own.

If you want to see world-class bullying in action, every other page of any randomly-selected edition of the Daily Mail will provide plenty of examples. (And, by several pretty reliable accounts, if you want to hear world-class displays of obscene invective, try and get invited to one of editor Paul Dacre's news conferences).

Frankly, even if absolutely incontrovertible, independently-verified evidence that half the BBC licence fee went on a farm producing puppies and kittens for senior BBC executives to bludgeon with sledgehammers to relieve work-related stress, I'd still instinctively back them over any of Associated Newspapers' rags.

Yes, but Katchoo, surely you're missing the point. Andrew Sachs didn't do anything to deserve the phone calls, you make it sound as if he engineered the whole thing to generate some publicity. It seems extremely unreasonable that you're more or less blaming him for doing a 'poor me' act when it was JR and RB who made the calls, the Beeb producers who allowed the material to be broadcast, and the Daily Mail who kicked up a big stink. I don't think it's unjustifiable for AS to be upset about the whole thing.