This JR/RB/Andrew Sachs thing

I find myself agreeing with a lot of what Katchoo says to be honest. I listen to Russell Brand all the time as a podcast. I find him funny. Sometimes he's hilarious and inventive, sometimes he's just silly, sometimes he's plain rude. Sometimes he gets pulled up immediately by himself or his producer who is on air with him a lot of time as soon as something awful has been said.

Russel Brand is a loose cannon. That's why I like him. Ross is an extremely experienced broadcaster and should have known better, but I don't find the whole thing as awful as is being made out. I did laugh (sorry if that offends anyone).

RB has often made answering machine messages and cold calling phonecalls before. He famously used to call Noel Gallagher regularly and have some pretty outrageous conversations. He also left several messages on Duncan Banatine's (Dragon Den) answering machine once, each one sillier than the last. DB rang back and saw the funny side and they had a chat. The difference here is that these phonecalls have resulted in good interviews.

I agree that Andrew Sachs would have found such messages shocking and for that I think their should be an apology made from the BBC, RB and JR. Then it should be dropped.

I agree with Mr JK, the real offender in the Daily Mail is dragging it into the opening headlines.

Exactly what KN says.

Is this a good time for me to make my monthly statement that a friend of mine used to go out with RB? What makes it even better is that I've snogged someone she's snogged, so technically I've nearly kissed RB. Take that, LouM ?

You see - cause and effect, an excellent comedy barometer!

WSS.

Well, I've met two of the three main players in this saga - and that's "met" in a "had a one-to-one conversation with" sense, not a "been in the same room as" sense. So ner.

Neither of them was Russell Brand, though, so that's not much use for most people here.

If you do RB then you'll have practically snogged Knownowt ?

?

Given KN and I were at the same uni at the same time, we have almost certainly snogged each other at some point, by two degrees of separation or otherwise. ?

The BBC is apparently facing a £250,000 fine - at least according to a headline published by Associated Newspapers.

If you read the actual article, though, you'll quickly discover that said 250K is a notional maximum that Ofcom can fine them, but since Ofcom hasn't even completed its investigations, let alone filed a formal report, this makes the headline about as useful as one reading DAILY MAIL FACING MASS INCINERATION OF MILLIONS OF COPIES on the grounds that since Daily Mail readers almost certainly own matches or other means of setting light to the paper, it's therefore at least a passing possibility that they could all decide to torch their copies at the same time.

oooo Mr JK, you tease, i got all excited for a minute there. ?

I remembered that after I posted ?

Phew, back. Just had to screen a kids film about cute animals - a bit of a contrast to this discussion. ?

I'm still firmly in my belief that this is all a massive mountain out of a molehill.

BGB - I don't see what AS fighting in WWII has to do with this? ? However, my mother is also in her 70s and if this would have happened to her she'd have tutted and deleted the message. I think that this is a bit different to an actual kiss and tell (which I do have experience of first hand, and that is a WHOLE different ball game).

However, I concede that the Daily Mail have the most blame at their door for whipping up such a ridiculous frenzy over this. I have to wonder that if it wasn't involving two such controversial figures, would they have made such a fuss?

I really would like the people who are saying that I am in the wrong to answer my question - was he right to talk to the press without consulting his granddaughter first?

Oh and pmsl at LouM. I'm told by those who know that he's very good. You go girl!

I think a lot of the Daily Mail fuss has to do with chuntering about how much JR is paid and somehow that its linked to his behaviour - surely he's paid because he creates publicity for the Beeb, which he's done in spades here

Not according to this he didn't - he only found out it had gone on air the Wednesday of the week afterwards http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7694989.stm

Erm...I said he grew up during WWII (do the math as the Yanks would say). The point was that there is a massive difference. In all honesty I'd probably be annoyed if someone called me up to tell me they'd fucked my granddaughter and expect an apology. You said he was daft to be offended - just because your mum would tut doesn't mean Andrew Sachs has to dismiss it. The whole episode doesn't need elevating into the midsts of the national tabloids but certainly think AS deserves an apology after which the matter should be dropped. The whole Ofcom thing is ridiculous.

I completely agree.

You said earlier Katchoo that anyone listening accepts what RB is like but AS wasn't listening and he is the 'victim' in this. I can imagine it being humilating for him and he has every right to be offended. I think it's irrelevant what his granddaughter does for a living as I'm sure when she visits her grandfather, she doesn't turn up in full burlesque gear (as per the DM article), she'll just be a regular granddaughter who, despite sleeping with RB and her job, deserves respect too.

I agree. The Ofcom thing and all the complaints are OTT. I do however believe Andrew Sachs was entitled to be upset and complain about it.

And the difference between someone calling up your elderly relative to tell them who you'd been shagging and what JR and RB did is that it wouldn't be broadcast to thousands of people for their amusement.

Once more for effect:-

Improper use of public telecommunication system—(1) A person who—

(a) sends, by means of a public telecommunication system, a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character; or

(b) sends by those means, for the purpose of causing annoyance, inconvenience or needless anxiety to another, a message that he knows to be false or persistently makes use for that purpose of a public telecommunication system,

shall be guilty of an offence and liable on summary conviction to [imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or a fine not exceeding level 5 on the standard scale or both].

BGB - Sorry for misquoting, and yes, a bit of a math failure moment there. ?

However, my point stands, you can't generalise and say because he is in his 70s and of a different generation he will take offence. It doesn't automatically follow.

Personally yes I do think he's being a bit over-sensitive, but he has every right to take offence if he chooses to do so. I also agree that he has every right to complain to the BBC and ask for an apology.

I just don't think he should be chatting to Daily Mail reporters without speaking to his granddaughter first and asking her if she wants the whole thing whipped up.

I quote from the Daily Mail -

'They apologise to me and they say how awful for Mr Sachs, but nobody has offered any apology to my granddaughter. I replied to Jonathan Ross and suggested that is where he should direct his attentions.

'The real focus should be on the harm they have done to her.'

Mr Sachs, who had not spoken to his granddaughter since the furore erupted because she had been working abroad, added he would be appalled if the disgraced comedian had actually slept with his granddaughter.

He said: 'It’s not for me to know these things but, of course, I would be horrified.'

So those of you who are saying that he has every right to ask for an apology - well he says he doesn't want one, he wants one for his granddaughter. Surely then she, as a grown woman, should ask for it herself?

I think his last line says it all really. Why did he need to say that at all - seems a bit detremental to his granddaughter IMO.

Which is a bit different to saying he's responsible for the whole "silly business".

He's quite possibly the victim of a crime, and outside of the conditions of subjudice has every right to talk to anyone he wants about it.

Mrs M I totally agree with this - but it should be up to her to make that call and decide what she is/isn't offended by. Her grandfather should not be the one talking to the tabloids without speaking to her first. I'm sorry, but by talking to the likes of the Daily Mail he has played a role in the escalation of this beyond all proportion.

Is this one of those 'you had to be there to appreciate it' moments as reading the transcripts it doesn't even sound vaguely amusing. Am quite surprised at Jonathan Ross as well.

I'm picturing the same comments made by... Oh.... Roy 'Chubby' Brown.

Hmmm.

Actually, I think you CAN generalize that most people in their 70s and 80s would take offence at the content of the messages because of generational differences.

Most people I know of my age (30s) would be offended if someone randomly spouted that into their answer messages, most people on this thread have said the same.

Great for you and your mother, but I think it's pretty clear you're in the minority. And even if you were in the majority, the fact that he found it offensive is all that matters here.

And it doens't really matter what AS should or shouldn't have said without discussing with his grandaughter - that's irrelvent to the fact that he has the right to complain about having offensive messages recorded into his answer machine, let alone about those messages being broadcast as comedy.

The fact that the press have picked it up is neither here nor there to his right to be a) offended or b) complain.

well officially it could be harrassment, as it was something that happened on more than one occaision (if i've read it right and there was more than one phonecall)

i forget though if the suspects have to have intended to cause alarm, harrassent or distress though. my legal head is in my work locker...

i'm another who finds RB deeply unfunny and another who wouldn't touch him with a nine foot barge pool. and JR is far from hilarious either

Hmm having read all here I think the main issues are that especially when it was a recorded piece it should never have been aired especially if AS had not given his blessing first and defnitely not if he had complained/asked for it not to be broadcast beforehand.

While AS's granddaughter's career has little to do with it, until I read the DM I had no idea she was known to RB and in an industry which could arguably be related to what they were discussing - I had intially pictured her as potentially a child/teenager and indeed completely unknown to RB or JR. While there is that context I think it makes it a little clearer where the content of what was said came from though it does not make it any easier for AS to have heard unexpectedly.

RB has previous for such behaviour doesn't he? I really do like him but he can push a bit too far. I also like JR but think he should have had more sense than get so carried away with this given his position. On paper, what went on doesn't seem funny to me but I'm not sure that's relevant at all. Funny or not it is in poor taste to have broadcast it imo, perhaps it was funny to RB and JR and a few others but not something that need to be aired.

I do think however it should not have even been broadcast and should only have been a matter for them to sort out amongst themselves as to an apology to AS. I can see why genuine listeners may have been offended and complained but the influx of complaints this has got are more than likely from people jumping on the huge bandwagon which I think is unfortunate for all concerned.

Umm. That's a slightly iffy line of thought surely?

Brand and Ross were out of line calling an elderly man and leaving those sorts of messages.

It should've been edited out of the actual broadcast and they should've been made to apologise - the fact that the papers and radio have made a mahoosive deal of it must be as, if not more excruciating for AS and his bed notch fodder gd.

KN, LM, LP and others who 'definitely would' - aside from other precautions - like every type of 'dom available (is there a bodydom?) - you may also want to let your elderly relatives know now, or disconnect their phones to avoid any nasty surprises.

Eugh though. Just, Eugh. Why would you? vom vom vom.

FWIW - i reckon RB is getting waaaay ahead of himself and is behaving like some untouchable. JR should know better but he's being seduced and influenced by the youth, fame and popularity that RB is weirdly enjoying. I am all for comedians, broadcasters, actors etc crossing lines and breaking boundaries - but this was plain crass and in the interests of nothing but being twatish. Not what the license fee ought to be funding IMO. I'd love to see RB lose his slot, but that's just cos i find him a knob anyway!

AND - the only reason the government have got all prissy is because they are in Sleaze Deflection mode.

Zebra, I don't disagree and that is why I have been at pains to say IMO at every opportunity, and I have said several times that he has the right to be offended and the right to complain. I think he has over-reacted in my opinion and not handled this well. I do appreciate that I have an incredibly thick skin and am more or less impossible to offend. I am very happy to accept that I am in the minority on this.

I'm still not comfortable with him talking to the tabloids without her consent though. I'm really not. I also think he has escalated this beyond all proportions by his actions. Had he kept this a private matter between him and the BBC, yes the tabloids may have run a story, but with no fuel to fan the flames, it would have died out. Now it's all a big hoo hah and his poor granddaughter is being splashed all over the place and she's not even in the country to comment. If she's happy with that then fair enough, but if it were my grandfather, as honourable as his actions may be, I would be very unhappy.

LOL I'm not even a massive RB fan either (although I do like him).

Surely the whole whether AS found it offensive or not thing is neither here nor there? It feels like sexual /racial harrassment at work issues. Someone finds it offensive, therefore it is.

Just because you, your mother, your vicar isn't offended at girlie calendars / terms like the Far East / answerphone messages about slimey little oiks f**king your family and debating whether you'll kill yourself etc doesn't mean that it's acceptable to everyone.

Indeed.

And?

I only brought up the analogy with my mother becuase I felt BGB was generalising, and I really don't like generalisations in any shape or form.

I am giving my own personal opinion, that's all.

Oh and there was no debate about him killing himself - a throwaway line only -

Sachs: [his answer machine message] Sorry I can't answer at the moment …

Brand: [interrupting] … I am too busy thinking about killing myself … Andrew, this is Russell Brand. I am so sorry about the last message - it was part of the radio show, it was a mistake … The truth is I am phoning you to ask if I can marry - that's right, marry - Georgina the granddaughter.