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cantwait2bMrsC
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UPDATED Any mental health experts/Doctors - advice please, dementia related (VERY long)

cantwait2bMrsC, 18 August, 2009 at 14:54 Posted on Off Topic Posts 0 10

Bear with me on this, it might be a bit long winded but any help/advice would be really appreciated.

My Nan is 84 at the end of this month. Approx 18 months ago, she started “losing” things, particularly her false teeth. They always eventually turn up, but in really random places – such as on the bird table in the garden amongst bread crumbs (!! Rationally of course we assume she was breaking up bread for the bird table, took her teeth out and put them on the bread board then put it all outside) or in her coat pocket… it turns out there is always a logical explanation of how her teeth end up wherever we find them HOWEVER … my Nan is absolutely convinced that a squirrel comes into her house, takes her false teeth and hides them. She’s not just saying it as an “excuse” for her being absent minded; she truly believes this is what’s happening. For a while we’ve just been laughing it off as it’s not really been a problem – as in, not causing any harm IYKWIM? But things have got worse….

My Nan now believes that while she was on holiday with my aunty in may, my mum let me into her (Nan’s) house and I’ve taken some mouth organs that belonged to my late granddad’s brother, who died in the war. She says that when she was at my house in June for my birthday, that my H took these mouth organs out of our sideboard (we don’t even have a sideboard) and showed them to my dad. She also thinks the summer gazebo/tent thing we’ve got is hers, and that I’ve taken this from her shed (despite the fact that my aunty has shown her that her’s is actually still in the shed. She insists I’ve got hers and the one in the shed is another we’ve put there to trick her). There are many other things, too many to mention here and not all involving me, that she absolutely believes have happened when they have not. Even when we show her “proof” that these things can’t have happened (as was the case with the gazebo) she won’t believe that she’s wrong and insists we are all conspiring to trick her.

As a result of this, she apparently wants nothing to do with me - it’s her birthday in 2 weeks and all the family would normally go out for a meal but she has said she doesn’t want me there. She is also being off with my mum as she thinks my mum “is in on it” and has let me into her house so I can take all these things. She says my mum has always been a liar etc... When my mum tried to explain to her that I don’t have any of these things, my Nan got really aggressive and vicious with her, actually hitting out at her with her walking stick, shouting in the street and screaming at her to get away from her.

Obviously my mum is really upset by all this. My mum would normally visit my Nan every day after work but now it’s like my Nan doesn’t want her there – they’ve had a few visits where it’s been ok and they’ve talked about nothing in particular but it’s always very tense and mum feels like my Nan is just waiting for her to go. My Nan only seems to want to be with my aunty (who is recovering from depression herself so could do without all this added stress).

My aunty has been to the dr’s with my Nan a couple of times to try and get the dr to see what my Nan is like, but my Nan always acts “normal” at the dr’s and denies it when my aunty brings up all this other stuff. It’s not just the delusions/hallucinations; she sometimes forgets entire conversations and says we are lying if we tell her she has said certain things and she can’t remember. She has had a health visitor visit her at home, but nothing really came of that apart from the HV saying she had a lot of protein in her urine and to send a sample to the dr, who then said there was nothing wrong with her (we’d been told that some types of urine infection can cause hallucinations if left untreated). My aunty has spoken to the HV again about the delusions and all the HV said is to try and change the subject and distract my nan. Fine when it’s just to do with a squirrel taking her teeth, but not fine when my nan strongly believes I am a thief and my mum is a liar.

The dr’s won’t talk to my mum about it all as she is not down as my Nan’s official carer so they say it confidential. (and as a result of everything, there’s no way my Nan would now agree to my mum being known as a carer) My aunty is her official carer as far as the dr surgery is concerned, so they will talk to her about it, however they say no other dr/HV can see my Nan without her agreeing to it, which of course she won’t. Plus the fact that my aunty isn’t particularly strong in herself and is getting it constantly from my Nan, well she’s not really up to pushing the situation forward.

So where do we go from here? Obviously I’m upset about my Nan thinking I’m stealing from her but I’m more concerned that there’s obviously something wrong with her that isn’t being diagnosed or treated. I assume it must be some form of dementia but how do we go about getting this confirmed if my Nan denies everything when a dr sees her? How do we even get a different dr/mental health expert to see her when she won’t admit there’s something wrong with her?

My mum and aunty both live only 2mins from my Nan so they are dealing with it every day and I’m worried about the effect it is having on both of them too. Also the fact that my Nan lives on her own but maybe it’s getting to the stage where she shouldn’t be.

Any advice? (well done if you read this far!)

x

UPDATE: Thanks to those who gave advice... my mum got in touch with the alzheimers society, who were quite helpful, said it definitely sounds like a form of dementia and have sent her some info/leaflets. They said the most important thing is to get it diagnosed, so we know what we're dealing with. SO... my mum and my aunty finally got to talk to my nan's doctor about everything and it seems he was more than useless. My nan is going for an appointment 1st October and GP said he will do a urine test then and "try to be more alert to what she says" but apart from that, he can't/won't do any actual tests or assessments for dementia without her agreeing - which of course she won't do, as she doesn't think there is anything wrong with her. GP said she's not doing any harm (huh, apart from the fact she thinks i'm stealing from her... there's more stuff now that she thinks i've got) and that she copes ok living on her own (but only cos my mum & aunty help her loads) so there's no real problem as he sees it.

Surely this can't be right? How does anyone get diagnosed with dementia as i assume most people suffering from it don't realise there's a problem? What else can we do? I don't think we can leave things as they are.

Thanks again for reading x

10 replies

Latest activity by Moose in the Garage, 9 September, 2009 at 17:04
  • Sunset21
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    Sunset21 ·
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    I'm no expert but my grandma was eventually diagnosed with Dementia in about 2000. There is a Dementia care trust it could be worth contacting. I know eventually a doctor went to see my gran, they can do various memory tests etc. although some of the things you describe sound nothing like my gran who would confuse day and night and as a consequence ring my parents at 3 in the morning. LIke you say it can take all forms and it really is a strain on family when it happens so I can understand your concern for your mum.

    Look the care trust up, i'm sure there's a number you can call, my dad contacted them when we were first worried about gran.

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  • Zebra
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    Zebra ·
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    Sounds horribly distressing situation ?

    Your mum can visit your Nan's GP and explain what has been happening. The dr won't be able to comment on your Nan's state to your mum but they can investigate what your mum says.

    It would probably be helpful if your mum went along with your Aunt (but without your Nan) as they can corroborate each other's concerns.

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  • Zebra
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    Zebra ·
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    Sounds horribly distressing situation ?

    Your mum can visit your Nan's GP and explain what has been happening. The dr won't be able to comment on your Nan's state to your mum but they can investigate what your mum says.

    It would probably be helpful if your mum went along with your Aunt (but without your Nan) as they can corroborate each other's concerns.

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  • B
    blimey ·
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    Kay -Cee,

    Lots of hugs to you. I know how distressing it is to see a family member go through this if it is Dementia as my mum has Alzheimers and all i can say it is one of the cruellest diseases to live with as the sufferer but also for the rest of the family.

    I really think it might be an idea if you to post exactly what you've written here on a Dementia or Alzheimers forum.

    try the Alzheimer's Society Forum as they will probably give you some good advice on how to move forward to help your nan.

    I'm so sorry you are having to go through this if it is dementia as its a horrible horrible disease.

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  • Rache
    Beginner January 2004
    Rache ·
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    This is a very common problem - do not worry.

    Get your mum or aunt to make an appt with your grandmother's doctor in her name, but turn up without her. Obviously her GP can't tell your mum anything about your nan, but information the other way is very very useful. Tell the GP what the concerns are, and the GP will have some suggestions.

    What I usually do is send the patient a letter to come in for a "routine check up" when I have a chat to them about various things and do a mini mental test score and organise some blood tests. It's usually fairly clear whether you're dealing with dementia of some sort or depression or psychosis. After that medication can be prescribed or perhaps a referral to a psychogeriatrician. But the most important thing is to give that information to your Nan's GP. I'd certainly want to know if one of my patients were behaving like this, as often it's treatable

    HTH

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  • Hawhaw
    Beginner February 2007
    Hawhaw ·
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    How very distressing for you all.

    I'm afraid there is very little point in trying to convince your Nan that she hasn't seen the things that she thinks she has. She will be totally convinced, and telling her that she is wrong will only distress her further.

    The alzheimer's association are very good..

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  • cantwait2bMrsC
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    cantwait2bMrsC ·
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    (bouncing for update to original post)

    Anymore advice really appreciated if anyone knows about these things. Thanks x

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  • Ice Queen
    Beginner January 2007
    Ice Queen ·
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    We're going through the same with with OH's Nan and it's very upsetting, but there is very little you can do. She's accusing OH's aunt of recently having a baby that she hasn't seen and lashes out at everybody about the conspiracy - it's awful, but nothing can be done

    She is now in a nursing home, but this is because she cannot look after herself and needs constant care due to problems breathing

    It is very distressing, but you have to all remember that she is unwell, and try not to let anything she says upset you. It's very hard, but you do have to try. She probably doesn't even know what she is saying / doing

    Take care

    xxx

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  • T
    Toblerone ·
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    Kay-cee I could have written this when my nan had dementia, as you say it starts off with something really silly but soon becomes something really upsetting and difficult and distressing to deal with. Started off with her not being able to remember where to put milk, tea bags etc when she had made a cuppa (we used to find the milk in the cupboard and teabags in the fridge) and gradually progressed to her hiding her cutlery down the back of her bedhead and hiding her jewellery under carpets (and in fact she threw lots of her jewellery away, we found some in the bin and realised lots more was missing)

    Like you we were accused of taking things, hiding and she was convinced there was a plot to get her in some way. She used to prop up bits of plywood and trays and things against the windows at night as she was sure people were trying to get in. She used to wander the landings of her block of flats (she was in warden controlled flats at the time) and bang on her elderly neighbours doors during the night, as she had no concept of time anymore (we discovered this later, they didn't want to say anything to us at the time because they didn't want her to get into trouble, bless them)

    It all came to a head when she went for my mum one day with a knife. Up til then we'd been coping - just - but that was when we insisted the doctors at the surgery came out and with the help of her doctor, my mum, me and the meals on wheels lady (who was an absolute star, and just happened to be there on the day) we actually got her sectioned and into a secure unit to ensure she could be properly diagnosed and medicated. I think the hardest thing I have ever done was leave her there crying and pleading for us to take her home, but she just wasn't safe on her own and was becoming a danger to other people.

    Once she was properly diagnosed and treatment began she got much better very quickly. She always had her moments - she was convinced she was 92 (she was 98 - interestingly her dementia started when she was about 92 so we think it's like she got "stuck" at 92; she told us she'd been to the moon (there's trees up there don't you know!) she was best friends with Princess Grace of Monaco, she was a magistrate in her youth (she ran a caff in Bermondsey!) and she was always a bit confused about who mum was as she was expecting her to be about 6 years old. But we could live with all of that, and the fact you used to have "circular" conversations with her that just went over and over and over. (it got very *Groundhog Day* after a while!) because she wasn't violent and distressed all the time, having a nurse in every 2 weeks to giver her her injections.

    After a short while at home with us after her stay in the unit we knew she needed to go into a home; you couldn't leave a toddler to cope in a flat alone and we thought that was roughly the level of care she would need as the drugs made her very wobbly on her feet and frail and we were lucky enough to get her into a really lovely care home locally who were fantastic for the last year of her life, we all saw her every day and I know she couldn't have had better treatment.

    OK so i've gone on at length about us and our situation but they key thing I would say is, a sympathetic doctor will make ALL the difference. If there's any chance your mum and your auntie could get together and maybe try and get another doc at the practice to see your nan maybe they can do a proper evaluation because I don't think the doc you are dealing with at the moment is helping at all by the sounds of it, and you need that diagnosis, even if it means what we went through with the sectioning, because that was the only way they were ever going to get my nan to accept medication, she fought like a cat when it happened and that was just awful, but if we hadn't it would have been a lot worse and someone would have got seriously hurt. If, once your nan is diagnosed and has her treatment started, your mum and auntie could get her to agree to have Power of Attorney that would help you all a great deal. We did this with my nan and it was a huge relief for me and mum (who had the POA) to be able to deal with her doctors directly about nan's care and treatment; also we were able to manage her pension, closing off the tenancy agreement of her flat and the bills there, which she would in no way have been able to deal with.

    I hope things get better but the key thing is to get a sympathetic doctor onside and get your mum in a position to take over from your auntie (who doesn't sound like she can cope very well with all of this) maybe you can help your mum as well. I wish you the greatest of luck. it's such a hard thing to cope with, emotionally and practically.

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  • Weather Girl
    Beginner October 2009
    Weather Girl ·
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    My grandma has been suffering with dementia for some time now and I can completely sympathise what some of you have said. It's awful. She's currently in hospital as things have deteriorated and this might be slightly off topic but in my opinion the care she's been receiving this last week sucks. Anyway, I really hope things get better for you all and if ever you want to vent just shout x

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  • Moose in the Garage
    Beginner May 2005
    Moose in the Garage ·
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    Is there another doctor in the practice you could see who might be a little more use?

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