Why you should not pay your evening entertainment the full amount in advance

I am sorry to hear that. Thanks for your warning in advance.

Show Band is ***.

Any band worth their salt will only ask for a deposit up front. This is perfectly normal and acceptable I think.

Sorry to hear you had that problem, but surely that isn't a common occurance?

I love watching live bands and have seen hundreds round the local pubs, but I've never once seen them drunk or abusive.

More sensibly would be to put a 'no alcohol' rule to anyone you have employed that day. I wouldn't expect them to be drinking anyway, they are there to work.

Again another person registering on here just to vent about a situation which occured nearly a year ago (pointless), although it also looks like you're tagging words so that you get a good google rating for whatever you're trying to advertise?!

All very well but not very constructive I'm afraid

Nothing wrong with paying the full payment beforehand. I won't give people jewellery until they pay me fully....why is a band different. The venue would have required full money as well.

Sounds like you are just stirring things up to be honest. The wedding was 10 months ago and you weren't even the groon. Why have you highlighted the word band constantly?

Jim - are you the owner of the venue by any chance?

The manager of the band was in contact with me recently and paints a very different picture.

I suspect, at best, this is six of one and half a dozen of the other and probably best left well alone by us.

There are a number of people I wouldn't suggest paying in full before the big day:-

• Photographer
• Entertainment (Band, DJ etc)
• Wedding Car

This is because all you are doing is paying or their time, the venue will have had to buy in all the food etc so it's fair to pay them beforehand.

But, make sure you have the balance payments already to give them as soon as you see them. You should have signed paperwork in place that protects you incase they do a bad job, so this would be the cover you'd need.

Hot subject I'm afraid. I, like many other DJs I know, would not turn on the music if full payment has not been made. The reason..... a couple of DJs i know have ended up doing a function for free because at the end of the night noone had the money for them.

Personally, my payment terms are paid in full three weeks before the event. I've not had anyone quibble about that..... and I've never had a complaint afterwards either.

You wouldn't go into Tescos and pick up a trifle and say 'I'm not paying for this until I've tasted it as it may not be as good as it looks'. Same with entertainment. The reason you don't is because you have trust and confidence in the brand. You should do the same with entertainment. If you're unsure about them, ask to speak to any of their past clients. I've only had this once, and I happily contacted a few of my past brides who were more than happy to have a natter on the phone with another bride.

Sandy,

Totally agree, I mentioned that I'd ensure that balance payments are ready for the recipients as soon as you seen/meet them on the day to cover what you describe... Just to add fuel to the fire though, noticed that both Asda and Tesco offer FULL refunds if your not totally happy with the hypothetical trifle?! Now that's customer service!

Trust and confidence is important, I always offer a huge number of previous recommendations and testimonials from previous Weddings, but I respect that it's difficult for couples as this is most probably the first and only time they're booking Wedding items. Scare stores like this "show band" don't do anyone any good.

My advice, do your homework, speak to existing Wedding couples and if possible see your suppliers in action!

We paid our pianist the full amount up front. What about if you cancel a day before and then refuse to pay them what you owed them? Then it's too late for them to get another booking, so the opportunity cost is very high, even though they haven't actually "bought in" anything, same with the car and the make-up girl. We did pay a couple of people on the day and handed them the money as soon as they arrived.

Yes indeed this is a hot topic. I've talked to the band in question and it does indeed seem that, Jim, you have a recurring problem with them. Its up to you that you've decided to pursue it, but what is not cool is that you've posted on here trying scare tactics which will only harm peoples' perceptions of bands and musicians in general. Brides and Grooms have a lot to pay out for BEFORE their big day and our viewpoint is that music is no different.

We ask for a 20% non-refundable deposit on booking and the balance two weeks in advance. To date, i've not had any complaints on this method. We do it for two reasons. Firstly, no-one really wants to have to deal with money on the actual day itself - there are better things around to do!! Secondly for our own protection. In the days before we took payment in full before the night, we played an entire gig much to the delight of the bride and groom - everyone really enjoyed it. On approaching the father-of-the-groom for payment as we'd been instructed to to do, it transpired that he'd forgotten his cheque book. There was absolutely nothing he could do about it apparently. We left, without payment, with only his word that he would pay us. No prizes for guessing what happened next - we couldn't get hold of anyone from that family. A nasty time in the small claims court ensued and we got SOME of the money but by no means all of it. We weren't covered as part of our insurance policy and the Musician's Union weren't that much help to us either (that's another long story).

That's why we take payment in full. And I'm afraid I will make no exceptions.

What your post should have been titled is: "Make sure you do your homework before you hire a band or musicians, or for that matter ANY wedding service"

If you want to hire a band or musician without first having obtained references or seen / heard them play then that's your prerogative. Thats a given and I think any bride or groom will actually do that instinctively. Entertainment can be a huge chunk of the budget and you want to make absolutely sure of what you are getting.

It also sounds perhaps like a Ceilidh band was more appropriate for the evening? More appropriate for the guests perhaps. More appropriate for the age ranges present? Who knows.

i think you would take exception if I went to a Hotelier's discussion board and started a thread saying "under no circumstances pay for your venue's services in advance".

I've no idea what the real story is about that night, but this is not the place to air a greivance.

Tony

RS

O/T but this thread has reminded me the Hitched HiBs are blinking great.

Very well said. Tony also picked up on another valid point "It also sounds perhaps like a Ceilidh band was more appropriate for the evening? More appropriate for the guests perhaps. More appropriate for the age ranges present? Who knows."

Its not always down to the quality of the band whether they fill the dance floor. I recently worked with a superb band....but there was tumbleweed rolling across the dancefloor. i had the advantage of walking round talking to the guests during their set so that i could pitch the music just right. They were a phenominal band.....but not for that crowd. I've seen them on other occasions when I've dreaded having to follow them!

This thread is another case of someone with little time on their hands! They get a bit monotonous!

Agreed Sandy...sadly, we've all been there and its horrible when it happens. Thankfully not that often!

T

Tony, I agree and also disagree with parts of your reply, but the first point I was making and which you seem to have missed it, was the drunken behavior of the front person in this band who had been paid to provide a professional service for a wedding. The singer quite blatantly stated at their first break of the evening "I couldn't give a **** whether we go back on or not, we've already been paid". Having had contact with many bands over a number of years now I know this episode is uncommon, but the second point I would like to make is this is an act who try and project themselves on the web and in the media as something special and wonderful in the entertainment business and they were writing on another topic on this site having a go at other bands behavior.

Due to website terms I can't mention their name but why shouldn't I warn potential clients of the risk they would take when dealing with them?

I submitted this post as an attending guest at the wedding and a close family friend, if you know the manager of the band then you should already know that she was the same person who was drunk and abusive on stage at the end of the evening in front of 200 guests, who all paint the same picture!

I am sure that every bride to be would not want the most important day of their life, that they have spent years planning and saving for, to be ruined by the disgraceful behavior of a so called "professional entertainer".

After keeping a dignified silence throughout, I feel it is now time to provide a balanced look at the facts in this completely vindictive situation and let people make up their own minds about the legitimacy of these claims.

We are a professional wedding band who accepted a booking for a wedding in this chap’s venue, completely unaware of the ongoing dispute of several years standing between him, the local council and his neighbours regarding noise levels at his venue.

This chap is NOT a bride, groom or guest at a wedding as stated on here, but actually the disgruntled venue owner who has had trouble with the council and all of his neighbours for not complying with their rules and regulations regarding noise levels. I'm afraid you should NOT hire a live amplified band if your venue is a tent with a noise order put on it in my professional opinion. Had we known of the noise problem at the time of booking, or even that it had a noise limiter installed, we would not have accepted the booking. We have been inadvertently caught in the crossfire between this chap, the council and his neighbours.

Before I continue with the rest of the story, I would like to refer the reader to the links below, which will go much further into explaining the circumstances than I ever possibly could. Please read these newspaper articles in conjunction with what I have written here.

/news/licensing-board-members-to-hear.6445185.jp That sounds like a fun wedding this Saturday then

/news/licensing-board-members-to-hear.6445185.jp?articlepage=2

/letters/good-publicity-for-carfraemill.6290275.jp

/news/noise-testing-at-hotel-marquee.6432572.jp

http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/Documents/qJ11132/J123746.pdf

http://www.dpea.scotland.gov.uk/Documents/qJ11132/J123747.pdf

https://www.allbusiness.com/legal/property-law-real-property-zoning-land-use/13694058-1.html

https://www.findarticles.com/p/news-articles/southern-reporter-selkirk-scotland/mi_7932/is_2010_June_3/sound-court-noise-row-rumbles/ai_n53907207/

https://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_7932/is_2006_June_22/ai_n34544338/

There's always a grain of truth and the grain of truth in this is yes the ceilidh band did get a better response than us, but I think that this could be due to the fact that you could actually hear their ACOUSTIC instruments (ie. not amplified), whilst we had to play with speakers facing the back wall (yes really!). On asking the crowd if they could hear, their response was no, but we could do nothing about it. It's not easy to get an atmosphere going with a crowd that can't hear you. In hindsight, the ceilidh band should have been the only band booked because their acoustic instruments were in no danger of having the power cut to them via the sound limiter installed.

The first we suspected all was not well was 2 weeks before the actual wedding when the venue owner (this same chap) called several times with outlandish requests, including travelling over 100 miles to “inspect” our PA equipment. We were unable to comply due to band holidays. As a compromise, we agreed to use the front of house PA that he was hiring that he deemed “suitable”. Finding out that there was a potential problem re sound (but without knowing about the noise order or trouble with neighbours or council) 2 weeks before a wedding, we were forced into an awkward situation with the choice of cancel or compromise. We didn’t want to let a bride down at such a late stage. We have never cancelled a gig in our professional lives. So we compromised and went with it. In hindsight, we should have cancelled.

We arrived early at 4pm on the day in question (bands as a rule don’t usually arrive until 6pm/6.30pm for an 8pm start) but we could not get access to set up, so had to wait until the room was being turned around for the evening. The meal overran which made the wedding late (so nothing we could do there) and the harassment continued from arrival at the venue (and in our break re volume) right through until we left, telling us to hurry up, watching over everything that we were doing, questioning everything. We got on with our job quickly and politely and were set up ready to go within the hour of gaining access (as was outlined in the contract).

As a live band, to carry out the job properly, you must be able to hear on stage. The volume was so low (the speakers were facing the back wall) it was ridiculously difficult to hear.

At one point, the owner, still not happy with the volume, actually stormed onstage uninvited during a song and interfered with our equipment then physically hurt our lead singer as she tried to usher him offstage. The claims about being drunk are complete nonsense. Angry yes, drunk no.

Atlantic Soul always conducts itself in the most professional manner at all times. Read our hundreds and hundreds of reviews and testimonials. They speak for themselves. We have hundreds of delighted clients and we are happy to provide names and telephone numbers for you to contact them. We would not still be in business after all these years if we conducted ourselves in the way this fellow suggests. We would not get repeat bookings year upon year from the top charity balls and corporate events if we conducted ourselves as this fellow suggests. We would not be booked as word of mouth referrals from other brides and grooms if we conducted ourselves as this fellow suggests.

Any potential bookers can come and see us live at another wedding (with permission from that wedding of course) and are encouraged to do so. We value lots of interaction with our brides prior to booking, through the whole process and obviously on the big day itself. We are happy to answer any queries and allay any fears at any time from our brides. Our contract is with the bride/groom not the venue.

Everyone has a right to an opinion in the world, but to direct a misplaced grievance at an innocent intermediary in this way completely unacceptable. Especially since the whole argument has really nothing to do with us – it’s a fight between this chap, the council and his neighbours – and we just happened to inadvertently get caught up in it.

For the avoidance of doubt, re paying the balance in advance, our business terms are in line with many other professional wedding bands in that you pay a £100 deposit and sign a contract to secure the booking, with the balance being payable 2 weeks before the wedding. This is standard practice in the industry and we have been using this practice for many years with no complaint. These terms are clear in our T&Cs, on our website and also our contract that is issued for signature.

We would welcome any queries to *********@************.**.**

Well it looks like you've had a good chance to get your point across, ASB. Hopefully this will be an end to the slagging off you seem to have had. Best of luck to you guys and girls!

Well that's pretty comprehensive. Come on then Jim. Cards on the table. Are you Jim Sutherland?

Thanks JST, much appreciated.

Tony, yes it's definitely him, as he posted the same rant on another site and part of his email address came up:

Seems a teeny tiny bit pointless to go to the effort to post all that when he cant even post your name... How very strange.

Oh yes...Google right now "jimsutherland2010" as at 22:31 26th Aug and third result is a hitched thread:

By jimsutherland2010 - 19 Aug 2010. Hi everyone, my name is Jim and I was a guest at a friends wedding reception on 24th October 2009 at The ...

so he's changed his username clearly.

Oh well - why don't we just put this one to bed. I appreciate your nightmare though guys!

onwards

Tony

View quoted message

He did name them in a previous thread which was quite rightly removed by the Hitched office. So then he re-posted in a non-naming vibe! I think the fact that ASB then came on here and said "look - its us he's talking about" speaks volumes.

I say let's leave this...

Tony

I appreciate your support guys but I fully expect him to come back with some sort of smart reply/excuse/further lies. As I have said previously, I REFUSE to get into a slanging match (it seems he does like to get the last word), but I really felt it was necessary to balance it up to contradict the juvenile masked posts tantamount to vindictive cyber bullying all over the web.

And on that note, on this subject tonight, I'm out!

Surely asb he is being slanderous?! is there nothing you can do abou this as clearly it could damage your business?

having read your response i am in no doubt who is telling the real story and i think the lengths that he's going to to bad mouth your business are appauling

having said that it's really only his business that will suffer!

I will respond with some of the actual "facts" regarding the ASB and the evening in question that are true and can be backed up by witnesses which include, the wedding party, staff, other musicians and guests.

Fact - Myself and my wife were guests and are good friends with the parents of the bride, who like myself are also farmers in our area and I don't normally get dressed in a kilt, or my wife in a ball gown for work.

Fact - I tried to contact the ASB, as I do with all bands coming to this venue for the first time, to advise them of the conditions placed on us by the local council and to check their PA system will physically fit into the specially designed concrete containers which direct the sound onto the dance floor and prevent noise leakage to the rear of the venue.

Fact - When contacted the band was uninterested, un co-operative and actually quite rude regarding the situation and had no intention of complying with our conditions. For that reason I hired in a professional PA hire company to supply a system that would fit in our containers.

Fact - The Ceilidh band were not playing acoustically but were using amplified instruments for their accordions along with microphones. The ceilidh band were also only meant to play one session on the evening, during the ASB break, but the ASB took so long setting up that the ceilidh band had to get the proceedings underway and also play a second set later in the evening..

Fact - The only members of the ASB who arrived early were the singer and the keyboard player in a car with a small trailer, the others arrived after this in their own vehicles and apparently the guitarist got lost and arrived late which was the main reason they couldn't get going on time.

Fact - The ASB began the evening at an appropriate level for our restrictions but continued to raise the level of their own system, which they only needed on stage for monitors. When my wife noticed the singer turning the level up during a song she approached her and asked her politely to turn it back down, at this point the music was stopped mid song and the singer announced over the microphone to all the guests “This woman is a fascist and she is trying to ruin your evening” reading their response above this is apparently acceptable behaviour.

Fact – A number of people including the best man, the sound engineer and staff will confirm that the female singer with ASB had breath that smelt strongly of alcohol even before they began playing. By the end of the evening she was slurring her words in between songs and during preparation for the bride and grooms final send off she announced over the microphone “The bride’s father asked us to make an announcement, is he still here? or is he away hame greetin.” Again ASB apparently consider this as acceptable behaviour.

Fact – Wedding receptions before and after this event last year in the same venue went smoothly and other bands managed to work within the conditions and still entertain all the guests.

The worrying aspect here is instead of calling the bride and groom to apologise after their embarrassing actions, the ASB appear to consider themselves blameless. Their egotistic manner was in abundance on the evening in question and as I can see from their response above, still is. Although they obviously hold themselves in very high esteem, the truth of the matter here is they are just another function band who had a bad night and instead of professionally taking it on the chin they ruined the big day for two lovely people, their families and their guests .

As I have now been officially accused of lying by ASB, and to confirm my honesty in this matter, by all means if ASB would like to take this to the next stage of legal proceedings then let’s do so, as I have nothing to hide, nothing to gain and no hidden agenda here.

I am bemused by the reaction from other members on this blog, especially Tony, who seems to jump on the back of any topic he can and “bump his gums” to.

Jim

Give it a rest

So Jim you aren't just a wedding guest and are infact the owner of said venue? You just forgot that part in your original post?

Why bring it up after 8 months?

I find it extremely petty that an arguement like this is brought onto a forum and Jim if you feel the need to continue to have the arguement with ASB why not take legal proceedings yourself?

I couldn't care less who is in the right or wrong but I'm pretty bored of seeing the same topic brought up with yet more 'facts'.

Again, I'm not sure we know who is lying and who is telling the truth here. You clearly dont like function bands. You clearly have an issue with one in particular. I have no idea what "bump your gums" means. What I do know is that I try and be as helpful as possible on this forum which I'm sure most people will attest to. Forgive me, did you not jump on the back of a topic?

What is clear is that you didn't make your position clear at the start of all this.

I for one am bored of it.

Tony

RS

Tony "bump your gums" is a phrase we in Scotland use for people who are giving their opinion, particularly an opinion we do not agree with.

I'm not sure why he is attacking you here, you were merely playing devil's advocate from what I've read.

I really think everyone should step away from this now, it's very tedious and as PG has said why doesn't Jim seek legal advice if he feels he has been so badly wronged, or the couple in question??

And I've had it up to the back teeth. Had my say. Finito