Do you believe?

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

So what would be the point in Nickj doing it, to go along like a good little lamb and ignore everything that is said and dismiss it.

I can make up my own mind about things and don't stick to the flock.

id="quote">

No, he would just be aware of and resistant to resistant to cold reading.

quote:Originally posted by WIseMonkey
Off the subject for a moment if i may.
To everyone who doesn't 'believe'. I'm interested in what you're beliefs on the afterlife are. if you have any at all?

id="quote">

In terms of afterlife, I'm happy enough to just say I don't know and I guess we'll all find out in the end. But I agree with LTP - live each day as it comes on the assumption there's nothing else - if there is then it's a bonus. FWIW I don't really 'do' religion either although again I am not a complete unbeliever. In terms of psychics, again, I wouldn't personally go to see one and I believe the majority are either fakes or just good at reading people (some may genuinely believe this is a psychic gift). I won't say it's impossible though as who knows?

I'm so on the fence I'm getting splinters ?

quote:Originally posted by Pint&APie
Do I believe in heaven ? Sometimes.

Do I believe people can talk to the dead ? Never.

Not sure what that proves.

id="quote">



Exactly. See my point above. The two topics are not related.

quote:Originally posted by SophieM

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

So what would be the point in Nickj doing it, to go along like a good little lamb and ignore everything that is said and dismiss it.

I can make up my own mind about things and don't stick to the flock.

id="quote">

No, he would just be aware of and resistant to resistant to cold reading.

id="quote">

So tell me how you can be cold read when you're brought into someones house, you don't say a word and you don't face them during the reading at all, how is it possible to cold read someone when you can't see their expressions etc?

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

quote:Originally posted by SophieM

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

So what would be the point in Nickj doing it, to go along like a good little lamb and ignore everything that is said and dismiss it.

I can make up my own mind about things and don't stick to the flock.

id="quote">

No, he would just be aware of and resistant to resistant to cold reading.

id="quote">

So tell me how you can be cold read when you're brought into someones house, you don't say a word and you don't face them during the reading at all, how is it possible to cold read someone when you can't see their expressions etc?

id="quote">


Look, I'm sorry but I wasn't at your reading and I don't know what happened. I do however know that you are very young and very credulous and a prime candidate for cold reading. We've had this discussion before and I'm not going to have it with you again.

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

quote:Originally posted by SophieM

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

So what would be the point in Nickj doing it, to go along like a good little lamb and ignore everything that is said and dismiss it.

I can make up my own mind about things and don't stick to the flock.

id="quote">

No, he would just be aware of and resistant to resistant to cold reading.

id="quote">

So tell me how you can be cold read when you're brought into someones house, you don't say a word and you don't face them during the reading at all, how is it possible to cold read someone when you can't see their expressions etc?

id="quote">

it has been demonstrated quite easily by Derren Brown. I could post the link again for you.

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

quote:Originally posted by SophieM

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay

So what would be the point in Nickj doing it, to go along like a good little lamb and ignore everything that is said and dismiss it.

I can make up my own mind about things and don't stick to the flock.

id="quote">

No, he would just be aware of and resistant to resistant to cold reading.

id="quote">

So tell me how you can be cold read when you're brought into someones house, you don't say a word and you don't face them during the reading at all, how is it possible to cold read someone when you can't see their expressions etc?

id="quote">


I don't know. Because I haven't studied cold reading. But plenty of people have. And prove it can be done. And exactly as you've described too.

Fark me, it was not that long ago that we had this umpteen pager was it? ?

talk about recycling.

The only afterlife we're all set for is one being digested by various micro organisms and if we're lucky, having our guts pecked out by eagles on the top of a mountain.

The afterlife is indeed to make people more comfortable about death. After all, if we all really believed in it, why are we so scared of death? Human beings would be like lemmings. Funerals would be far happier as well - we might have lost someone but we'll be seeing them in a few years anyway and as an absolute bonus, it's for eternity!

Accept that this life is the only one you're going to get and live it accordingly.

I believe we live on in people's memories.

I would love to believe in heaven or similar, but it doesn't make sense to me. To me it seems so obvious that it's all just comforting fiction.

One thing that stuck out so much from my reading was her knowing about ex being seriously impaled as a child and for the people that replied needle, scissors etc at the time, no thats not what she meant

When ex was 5 he was riding his bike, fell off and was impaled on the park railings, nasty scars on both front and back of his body.

How is it possible she knew this? She knew nothing about me before I turned up, didn't take my name when booking, just told me her address. Yes other parts of the reading could have been pure coincidence but that, that just really jumped out.

Okay here's what i think.

For me i see a spirit as a living thing. You can see if the body is dead or alive.
I have no proof, but i believe that the here and now is just one level of exsistance. When we die we don't "Die" we go on and live again on another level.
I believe that every single person is capable to "See", but only some people are open enough to see. But everyone is able to become open.

Its a clip from his show about 10mins long but it shows quite easily how you can fool a lot of different people all of the time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4

this is also James Randis site which is very interestinghttps://web.randi.org/

he is not a non beliver but will willingly give $1million dollars to anyone who can prove their gift.

quote:Originally posted by WIseMonkey
Okay here's what i think.

For me i see a spirit as a living thing. You can see if the body is dead or alive.
I have no proof, but i believe that the here and now is just one level of exsistance. When we die we don't "Die" we go on and live again on another level.
I believe that every single person is capable to "See", but only some people are open enough to see. But everyone is able to become open.

id="quote">



That's fine. I've don't have a problem with you believing any of that.

My problem lies with someone charging me for making contact with someone they can 'see', who has a message for me.

quote:Originally posted by WIseMonkey
Okay here's what i think.

For me i see a spirit as a living thing. You can see if the body is dead or alive.
I have no proof, but i believe that the here and now is just one level of exsistance. When we die we don't "Die" we go on and live again on another level.
I believe that every single person is capable to "See", but only some people are open enough to see. But everyone is able to become open.

id="quote">

This is how I see things as well. I think whilst we can all see, as we get older, become adults, some of close off from it as we want everything to be black and white, when it's really not.

On a seperate note, there are loads of things I don't believe in, but I would never mock those that did believe if they sought comfort in it.

quote:Originally posted by Ginger
fark me, it was not that long ago that we had this umpteen pager was it? ?

talk about recycling.

id="quote">

we should all do our bit for recycling ?

jester, look on you rtube for derren brown. there is one which is around 30 mins long, which is his "reading" of dozens of people, all in different countries, its fabulous when you see their faces.

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback
The only afterlife we're all set for is one being digested by various micro organisms and if we're lucky, having our guts pecked out by eagles on the top of a mountain.

The afterlife is indeed to make people more comfortable about death. After all, if we all really believed in it, why are we so scared of death? Human beings would be like lemmings. Funerals would be far happier as well - we might have lost someone but we'll be seeing them in a few years anyway and as an absolute bonus, it's for eternity!

Accept that this life is the only one you're going to get and live it accordingly.

id="quote">

In the interests of a healthy discussion, and this is not personal, how can you possibly say this with such authority? If I believed in spirits/afterlife etc, could I not call you idiotic/naive for believing that this life is it? Just as others are calling those that do believe in spiritual things? This is not a modern belief, what about the egyptians for instance, who lived a life preparing for the afterlife? who can possibly say what is wrong or right?

for the record, I don't know what I believe, it would certainly help if I did, to get to grips with a recent loss.

quote:Originally posted by NickJ

quote:Originally posted by Ginger
fark me, it was not that long ago that we had this umpteen pager was it? ?

talk about recycling.

id="quote">

we should all do our bit for recycling ?

jester, look on you rtube for derren brown. there is one which is around 30 mins long, which is his "reading" of dozens of people, all in different countries, its fabulous when you see their faces.

id="quote">

This onehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btP_vy5cQq4 [?]
(sorry for multi posting but I dont think most people understand what a con cold reading is and its frustrating)

quote:Originally posted by NickJ

quote:Originally posted by Ginger
fark me, it was not that long ago that we had this umpteen pager was it? ?

talk about recycling.

id="quote">

we should all do our bit for recycling ?

jester, look on you rtube for derren brown. there is one which is around 30 mins long, which is his "reading" of dozens of people, all in different countries, its fabulous when you see their faces.

id="quote">



I've been to a Derren Brown show. Had never heard of him before, went with a bunch of work friends.

It's incredible how he does it. It's amazing. He even shows you how he does it, to prove he's cold reading and not really 'reading your mind'. ?

Yet STILL, people believe it's true. ?

Just like people believe in god, jesus and all that crap ?

All too easy to mock other peoples beliefs isn't it [V]

quote:Originally posted by AnnaBanana

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback
The only afterlife we're all set for is one being digested by various micro organisms and if we're lucky, having our guts pecked out by eagles on the top of a mountain.

The afterlife is indeed to make people more comfortable about death. After all, if we all really believed in it, why are we so scared of death? Human beings would be like lemmings. Funerals would be far happier as well - we might have lost someone but we'll be seeing them in a few years anyway and as an absolute bonus, it's for eternity!

Accept that this life is the only one you're going to get and live it accordingly.

id="quote">

In the interests of a healthy discussion, and this is not personal, how can you possibly say this with such authority? If I believed in spirits/afterlife etc, could I not call you idiotic/naive for believing that this life is it? Just as others are calling those that do believe in spiritual things? This is not a modern belief, what about the egyptians for instance, who lived a life preparing for the afterlife? who can possibly say what is wrong or right?

for the record, I don't know what I believe, it would certainly help if I did, to get to grips with a recent loss.

id="quote">

People seem determined to assign higher meaning to us, just because we're at the top of the food chain. Do mosquitoes have an afterlife? Do dogs? What about gorillas? Are we really that special when essentially what defines our conscious state is a grey mushy organic computer that's wired in a slightly different way?

I eat food and breathe, which makes my body work and allows little electrical impulses to fly around my brain. I don't find the need to romanticise my mind. It is what it is and I'm going to enjoy having it whilst it still works.

quote:Originally posted by Minx Sauce

I've been to a Derren Brown show. Had never heard of him before, went with a bunch of work friends.

It's incredible how he does it. It's amazing. He even shows you how he does it, to prove he's cold reading and not really 'reading your mind'. ?

Yet STILL, people believe it's true. ?

id="quote">


Me too, he's awesome ? So, so clever.

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay
Just like people believe in god, jesus and all that crap ?

All too easy to mock other peoples beliefs isn't it [V]

id="quote">

And there you have made no point at all.

quote:Originally posted by Minx Sauce

My problem lies with someone charging me for making contact with someone they can 'see', who has a message for me.

id="quote">But people tend to go to the mediums not the other way around. And in that case why would any Medium take up their time talking to a stranger without being offered something for their time?
That's why people ask for a donation or a set amount of money.
We all know there are frauds about. I'm angry that this happens and people get taken for a ride, but why would someone who does have a real gift not ask for something in return unless it's something they hardly ever do so it's not going to cut into their life/time/day.

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback

quote:Originally posted by AnnaBanana

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback
The only afterlife we're all set for is one being digested by various micro organisms and if we're lucky, having our guts pecked out by eagles on the top of a mountain.

The afterlife is indeed to make people more comfortable about death. After all, if we all really believed in it, why are we so scared of death? Human beings would be like lemmings. Funerals would be far happier as well - we might have lost someone but we'll be seeing them in a few years anyway and as an absolute bonus, it's for eternity!

Accept that this life is the only one you're going to get and live it accordingly.

id="quote">

In the interests of a healthy discussion, and this is not personal, how can you possibly say this with such authority? If I believed in spirits/afterlife etc, could I not call you idiotic/naive for believing that this life is it? Just as others are calling those that do believe in spiritual things? This is not a modern belief, what about the egyptians for instance, who lived a life preparing for the afterlife? who can possibly say what is wrong or right?

for the record, I don't know what I believe, it would certainly help if I did, to get to grips with a recent loss.

id="quote">

People seem determined to assign higher meaning to us, just because we're at the top of the food chain. Do mosquitoes have an afterlife? Do dogs? What about gorillas? Are we really that special when essentially what defines our conscious state is a grey mushy organic computer that's wired in a slightly different way?

I eat food and breathe, which makes my body work and allows little electrical impulses to fly around my brain. I don't find the need to romanticise my mind. It is what it is and I'm going to enjoy having it whilst it still works.

id="quote">

<claps>

any afterlife belief is simply to shield the impact of the finality of death. aptly illustrated by annabanas post re loss and comfort.

quote:Originally posted by WIseMonkey

quote:Originally posted by Minx Sauce

My problem lies with someone charging me for making contact with someone they can 'see', who has a message for me.

id="quote">But people tend to go to the mediums not the other way around. And in that case why would any Medium take up their time talking to a stranger without being offered something for their time?id="red">That's why people ask for a donation or a set amount of money.
We all know there are frauds about. I'm angry that this happens and people get taken for a ride, but why would someone who does have a real gift not ask for something in return unless it's something they hardly ever do so it's not going to cut into their life/time/day.

id="quote">

But it supposed to be a gift and if it can comfort someone who is greiving then why aks for money?

quote:Originally posted by PhoebeBuffay
Just like people believe in god, jesus and all that crap ?

All too easy to mock other peoples beliefs isn't it [V]

id="quote">

But I'm not offended.

You'll be the one burning in the fires of hell for your sins for all eternity.

I'll say a prayer for you too.

Yes you can see dead animals BGB [hides under cushion]id="yellow">

quote:Originally posted by Mrs Jess
that's amazing BOBK, thanks ?

id="quote">

Np. I just wish more people could see it and the whole medium thing would be debunked.

quote:Originally posted by Mrs Jess
that's amazing BOBK, thanks ?

id="quote">

[crash] His book is very good too - as well as going into detail about cold reading and similar tricks there's some interesting stuff about mental exercises you can do to say, remember important information. I'm not explaining it very well, but it's an excellent and highly unusual read.

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback

quote:Originally posted by AnnaBanana

quote:Originally posted by barongreenback
The only afterlife we're all set for is one being digested by various micro organisms and if we're lucky, having our guts pecked out by eagles on the top of a mountain.

The afterlife is indeed to make people more comfortable about death. After all, if we all really believed in it, why are we so scared of death? Human beings would be like lemmings. Funerals would be far happier as well - we might have lost someone but we'll be seeing them in a few years anyway and as an absolute bonus, it's for eternity!

Accept that this life is the only one you're going to get and live it accordingly.

id="quote">

In the interests of a healthy discussion, and this is not personal, how can you possibly say this with such authority? If I believed in spirits/afterlife etc, could I not call you idiotic/naive for believing that this life is it? Just as others are calling those that do believe in spiritual things? This is not a modern belief, what about the egyptians for instance, who lived a life preparing for the afterlife? who can possibly say what is wrong or right?

for the record, I don't know what I believe, it would certainly help if I did, to get to grips with a recent loss.

id="quote">

People seem determined to assign higher meaning to us, just because we're at the top of the food chain. Do mosquitoes have an afterlife? Do dogs? What about gorillas? Are we really that special when essentially what defines our conscious state is a grey mushy organic computer that's wired in a slightly different way?

I eat food and breathe, which makes my body work and allows little electrical impulses to fly around my brain. I don't find the need to romanticise my mind. It is what it is and I'm going to enjoy having it whilst it still works.

id="quote">

You make good points BGB, and again, I don't know what I believe. A friend of mine recently took his life, and the only thing that is keeping his mother going is that she believes that his soul is now at peace and liberated from all the demons he was battling with before he died. How can anyone judge whether this is idiotic/moronic/naive? if its the only thing that is keeping her from losing her mind with grief? whether im a believer or not, its fine by me if she wants to think this, if it makes it easier for her to cope with her loss.

I understand the need for debate about this subject, and it interests me, but people will believe what they want to believe contrary to others opinions and 'evidence' shown.

One of my close friends was a member of the spiritualist church, he really beleived, he beleived he had a gift, he used to do psychic drawings, where he believed his spirit guide took over and actually produced the picture.
I don't believe in all this, but respected his views, he did not try to get me to change mine, nor me his.

People will always believe or follow what may seem ridiculous to others, look at the following for the BNP for example, it makes no sense to some, yet others believe.

Anyway, although my mate may have had odd beleifs that i did not share, i loved him still, and will be attending his funeral next week that will have a spiritualist feel to it.