Fifty shades of grey

I've read the first book, it was ok but not very well written.

I'm going to watch the film just because everyone seems to be banging on about it, so I want to see what all the fuss is about & because I won't have to pay to watch it.

Haven't read that MrsShep but will give it a go, thank you x

Let me know what you think! I think its brilliant.

If all else fails we'll go round to ravioliruby's place for readings of 50 sheds of grey!

I've read the books and honestly, most people proclaiming it to be crap and rapey haven't actually read them. I'm an avid reader by the way, so not the stereotype mentioned earlier in this thread. I found book 3 so boring but enjoyed the first two in alight hearted way. And i'd NEVER say it's rape. OR even BDSM, frankly anyone with half a second of experience in the BDSM community know it's just a control freak having slightly-more-than-vanilla fun.

We're going to see it on Saturday, just because we quite fancied being the *** couple in the middle of a million horny hetero ones on valentines day ?

Ooops. It starred out l e s b o s in my post above!

Me too :-)

I'm expecting to be disappointed with the film as 'Hollywood' always seem to get it wrong and it annoys me the authors allow them to make so many tweeks!

Jamie Dornan = FIT

I started reading the first book and really didnt like the way it was written. Don't get me wrong, it was h0rny in places, but I also found it glorified controlling relationships.

Some women may see it as romantic that their OH tells them what to wear, what to eat, when to exercise, but in this day and age relationships are about being equal.

I've been complaining about this since time began. I've now reverted to using 'lezzers'. That's not on their black list.

I read a few pages, realised how appallingly written they are, and gave up. It reads like some of the purile rubbish written by 14 year-olds that I used to see on fanfiction.net when I was in my teens (probably appropriate, given it started out as Twilight fanfiction). Since then, I've read a bit more about the content, and as someone who has been in both a BDSM relationship and a physically and emotionally abusive relationship at different times it sounds much more like the latter.

so you're basing your judgement on someone else's judgement?

As I say, I haven't read it so don't really have the right to slam it, but from the excerpts I've seen, this is exactly how it seems to me.

But there's a difference between this in the context of a consensual dom/sub relationship and an abusive one. If you go into a relationship agreeing to and wanting your partner to do those things, fair enough. I think the book straddles a line in places.

Here's daughter's write up on the film (she's 21) It's not convinced me to go.

Fifty shades of grey.... Haven't laughed so hard in ages! Shouldn't have sat next to Lucy the whole cinema probably hated us

Ha! alyj66, your daughter should be a critic

I agree ID. Out of interest (as I don't have a lot of knowledge of BDSM) are these relationships often taken outside the bedroom too? For example as mentioned, what to wear, eat etc? I've just been reading this, but its so badly written in itself that I don't think it helps much!

http://zephyrscribe.tumblr.com/post/52727257364/fifty-things-wrong-with-fifty-shades-of-grey

I'm basing my judgment on the direct quotations used within the articles I've read (for the interests of balance, I'm talking about both positive and negative articles). Saying that if someone leaves you'll find them doesn't sound very healthy to me. In fact, it was one of the things my ex used to make me stay. I don't want to go into details, but there are other sections I've read which remind me of my ex in a bad way.

(And you'll note I said "it sounds much more like the latter" - I didn't say "it is". Despite having done a lot of reading, I know I only have a second-hand knowledge of the detailed content and I never form a concrete opinion just on that. If someone wants to change my mind, I'm more than happy to listen to what they have to say).

50 shades of grey doesn't pretend to be a book about a healthy well balanced and 'correct' BDSM relationship, it doesn't claim to be a manual on how to conduct a BDSM relationship and it doesn't suggest that people should follow its example.

(So far as I know, having only read the first book) it's about a man who's a little messed up in the head and has an odd idea of what's OK in a relationship, having previously been 'abused' by an adult when he was young. They have a bit of a power struggle in their relationship, and he smacks her bum a bit. Like I said earlier - people really ought to lighten up about it. It's fiction.

I think people tend to get their feelings about the book in general and their feelings about controling relationships mixed up. The fact this book isn't cleverly written doesn't help the argument.

Yep. A girl I used to know addressed her partner as Daddy all the time except in company where it might raise inappropriate questions (like with family), he set her homework, gave her pocket money and so on. This was all completely consensual, and they had met at a munch (a BDSM meetup), so it was very clear from the outset that they were both looking for that sort of relationship.

?

Cannot get my head around this.

The person i know who is in a long term dom/sub relationship will receive daily instruction from his mistress - from what to wear, what to do etc (they are both married to other people and live about 50 miles apart - but it's consensual between all parties.) A lot of the instruction is humiliation based. I don't understand it. It boggles my mind. But each to their own.

I think it just worries people that young naive girls are going to be reading this and because it's become so popular think that this behaviour is Ok in a normal healthy relationship and men can treat them like that.

“I am trapped. He’s everywhere, overwhelming me, almost suffocating.”

“’No,’ I protest, trying to kick him off. He stops. ‘If you struggle, I’ll tie your feet, too. If you make a noise, Anastasia, I will gag you.’”

“‘No, please. I can’t do this. Not now. I need some time. Please.” “Oh, Ana, don’t overthink this.”

“’Alaska is very cold and no place to run. I would find you. I can track your cell phone- remember?’”

“How did you feel while I was hitting you and after?” “I didn’t like it. I’d rather you didn’t do it again.” “You weren’t meant to like it.”

I am truly horrified that some people think this isn't rape and abuse, and people who have a problem with it should "lighten up".

I would be sickened if I had an 18 year old daughter who had read the books and was planning on watching the film and thought this kind of relationship was glamorous and exciting.

Maybe I need to just step away from this thread...

SillyWrong - you could compare it to Gone Girl. The relationship in that book/film is clearly not a healthy one, and the couple still ends up together. But Gone Girl is not presented as a romantic film, being released on Valentine's Day with everyone swooning over the lead character. It is very clear in Gone Girl that this an extremely disturbing relationship. The fact that 50 Shades of Grey is presented as a love story is extremely dangerous for naive young girls, and extremely insulting to victims of abuse.

Personally I find the excerpt posted above very uncomfortable. It doesn't read like she's consenting to intercourse.

Maybe the whole book gives a different impression but if that's the general gist of it I'm not sure I want to and/or should lighten up about it.

It's fiction, being sold as the epitome of romance. The idea of a "damaged" man being fixed by the love of a good woman? Yeah, that's why I stayed. When impressionable teenagers are reading this stuff, and Christian Grey is somehow held up as the epitome of a romantic male lead (can you think of any other casting that has led to so much controversy?), then I start to worry.

Peanut, those quotes are just some of the ones I read online that were too close for comfort.

(I also read some quotes from the later books where he says about their unborn daughter "I think she likes sex already"!?! ? Please tell me that does not actually happen in the books!!)

This. I have read them all, and found them really disturbing. Not because of the BDSM itself - if people want to spank/whip/chain each other up, that's fine by me. If two consenting adults want to have a full-time Dom/sub relationship, where both parties know what they're getting into and are happy with it, then that's up to them. But the power dynamic in this relationship is unequal from the start - she is hopelessly (ridiculously, in the real world) naive and self-deprecating, and doesn't actually like most of the ideas involved, but goes along with it because he coerces her or she is afraid of his reaction/him dumping her if she doesn't do it. And despite what a lot of fans say, I don't see that he has changed that much by the end - in the third book he covers her chest in lovebites so she can't wear a bikini/sunbathe topless, and freaks out/storms off/blames her when it turns out she's pregnant. Romantic superhero?

Absolutely. The "I can't help it, I had an abusive childhood, I know I'm a b@stard and you should stay away from me, but don't leave me, I need you and I promise I'll change, promise me you'll never leave me" is classic abuser manipulation. This isn't fiction, this is real life for some women (and men).

I don't understand how this has become a romantic story. I suppose i can understand how it sold well, but it seems to have been skewed. This is an abusive relationship, not a loving, caring one. The quotes from peanut are the ones I'd seen that made me feel queasy

Well I haven't read so far into it but it sounds like even more shyte than I first thought. I can't read that sort of thing it makes me feel ill. I work with rape and sexual abuse survivors and can't abide anything that glorifies abuse in relationships.

Ah, Lister you might find Kushiel's Dart a little murky then, it centers around pleasure in pain

Edited to quote:

I have to say that I was nodding along reading your comment - I was thinking you were right, that to market Christian Grey and the story as a big heroic romance could be dangerous in that it glorifies potentially damaging relationships.

But then I remembered reading he book, and it did come across as a love story first and foremost, however skewed their actions, the characters were infatuated with one another. He was damaged and his idea of how to treat her was skewed - which isn't an excuse by any means, and it's not to say it's right or OK, just that it is honest and a true depiction of real life.

As for the quotes, yes I agree that out of context they look horrendous, and some of them are - they made me feel a little uncomfortable when reading them originally. There were several times I stopped and read passages to W out of disgust. But I don't think that anyone could argue that the lead girl was never 'on board' with the whole thing - perhaps that he moved her faster than she was ready for (and I'm not suggesting that is OK at all, just that she's not as much of a victim as the quotes alone suggest.)

I feel like I need to state here (and it's a shame that I do) that I don't think any kind of 'intimate' behaviour is OK without the clear consent of both parties, I don't think it's OK to threaten anyone or to make them feel scared/manipulated in a relationship - I don't condone any of that. In fact I wholeheartedly reject any suggestion that any of this is OK for any reason, including the manipulator being a victim themselves. All I'm saying is that these fictional characters do depict the reality of some relationships and I don't think it's OK for the outcry of people who don't like to see it.

But yes - bringing this back around to the original point - romanticising the story and making him the hero is worrying.

It's a great opportunity to start a conversation with those who may need to have it though? If I had children who were of the age to have read/watched it - I'd certainly be talking around the themes with them.

Yeah, I wondered about the quotes out of context. After all, during a pre-arranged, planned, consenting BDSM encounter, no can mean yes - that's why safe words exist, so you can say no as part of role-play and not worry about it.

One of the reasons it upsets people though is that he ignores her safe word at one point apparently

Yeah, that's absolutely unacceptable. Respect for each other's boundaries is crucial. I would never sleep with someone again if they did that to me.