george dubbya's speech and general olympic ranting

Personally I do not feel that China should be allowed to host the olympics and I am pretty shocked that more isn't being said about this. I don't think the fact that it is the olympics should outweigh the moral issues here, and I feel that countries should be making a stand by not taking part.

It is ridiculous to condemn China but take part.

L
xx

I agree and i wont be watching

but *** or get off the pot time was a long time ago

despicable really

But this is the age old thing about politics versus sport. why should the decisions of a few affect a whole world of top athletes? how can any government not allow their atheletes to go because of their stance on human rights. surely its up to the athlete in question to make that decision?

however, bush on the other hand is utterly pathetic. making a speech about human rights on the day when bin ladens driver is convicted of "promoting terrorism" by a military court, at a prison not even on US soil. and apparntly his sentence could be life, oh, and he s already served 7 years, without charge. not to mention the other 80 plus guys there, the majority of whom have not been charged with anything, yet have been held since around ****. no courts, no nothing. oh and torture as well. and rendition of other suspects to other foregin jails to keep it away from US soil.

I thin in this instance the issue is bigger than sport and the whole world of top athletes SHOULD be affected, and it would be right and moral if they were. because if no competing countries take a stance then we are effectively condoning the actions of China.

However, I do not think now is particularly the time to make that stance, it should have happened as soon as China was rewarded with hosting the olympics in the first place. There should be no question over this at this point, because there should be no competition going on. This issue is being utterly swept under the carpet, so as not to distract from the sport, and that is wrong

L
xx

Yes, China has a very very bad record of human rights. But for other govts of the world, including many western democracies, to turn around and condemn them before examing their own not so whiter than white records would be hypocrisy. And I absolutely include the UK and the USA on that

Listening with one ear to the radio this morning there is a school of thought that having the Olympics has forced China into making improvements that otherwise would not have happened.

No one is suggesting that other countries human rights records are whiter than white but come on, there are degrees. It is not simply there human rights record either, their entire foreign policy - how it affects Africa, the situation in Darfur, it is despicable and the international community is effectively rewarding them. We are saying, ok, you're not great, but you're a tiny bit better than you used to be so well done. Should we be rewarding them or actually imposing sanctions?

L
xx

That said, the whole darfur situation is being relatively ignored by everyone else, which is also a bloody disgrace

L
xx

Is China's support of the Sudanese govt any worse than what the UK and the USA have done in Iraq? really? Yes there are degrees but I don't agree that China are so far head and shoulders above the rest of us in badness that they should be singled out.

Well then perhaps we can agree to disagree as I do not believe that the UK and the USA are working to enable wholesale slaughter of millions of people in Iraq and I do firmly believe that China should be singled out, not rewarded for its actions.

L
xx

I dunno, worked pretty well back in Berlin in '36. Annoyed that Hitler chap no end it did, what with all those coloured chaps getting medals....

Then again, is GWB really in a position to preach on human rights? Is anyone from the most surveilled nation in the world?

It isn't about politics it's about....

..

.

Money.

I don't know how many poeple have died in Iraq and Afghanistan thanks to the actions of British and North American governments but I think wholesale slaughter might be as appropriate to use in those countries as well as in Darfur.

I thnk we have to be realistic about China, it has the ability (and desire) to be the prominent superpower in the world. Why make an enemy of it?

Well, yes. Whatever one thinks of the Iraq adventure, it was inspired by motives that were the exact opposite of China's activities in Sudan. They're cosying up to a repulsive government whose head has just been indicted by the International Criminal Court, whereas we were trying to get rid of the equivalent in Iraq.

Granted, the US monumentally cocked up the aftermath of the invasion, and there's no excuse for that - but the vast majority of the murders since the invasion have been carried out by criminal gangs with no connection to the US, UK or Iraqi government. By contrast, the killings in Darfur are being carried out with the encouragement of the Sudanese government.

So we're talking intended versus unintended consequences. China is knowingly turning a blind eye to the atrocities in Darfur, while the US and Britain, having admittedly unleashed the wave of terrorism that has engulfed Iraq by failing to recognise that if you remove a strong leader who held his people together by fear, ancient enmities will quickly resurface, are at least making genuine efforts to do something about it. To many people's surprise, including mine, the much-mocked "surge" does actually seem to be working in terms of drastically lowering the murder rate and increasing safety all round.

So do you really think the comparison is fair?

No, really?

L
xx

We should all just turn a blind eye because China is powerful?

L
xx

Well if you realised it was about money, why are you wasting your time as well as everyone else's with the social commentary?

Lois - I'm not turning a blind eye to anything. I'm as aware at the Darfur situation as anyone who watches the news and reads a paper. But we live in a world pretty much without borders now and we have to work and deal with China to ensure the future of world peace.

MrJK - I still believe the Iraq / Sudan comparison is relevant because the motive in both cases is oil, pure and simple. Doasn't matter who points the gun and pulls the trigger. People die because govts decide they want the oil, chinese, US and UK govts.

what was that about good men (sic) doing nothing being all that is needed for evil to triumph?

It is a complete disgrace that China has the olympic games.

I realses your time is valuable
I am sure you have more important things to do
sorry everyone!

L
xx

I am not talking about you personally turnign a blind eye, you are suggesting that internationally people should be what? condoning China's actions? Accepting them and doing nothing?
I am not questioning the fact that we have to work with China, I am questioning the methods we use and whether actively rewarding China is a good course of action

L
xx

Very good, now toddle along.... There might be a minority being oppresseed somewhere that is lacking your outrage.

I have always assumed that govts are working on many levels (diplomatic, international courts etc) to work with the Sudanese / Chinese. No-one is turning a blind eye but at the same time no-one is saying (Thank God) lets start another war over this.

I see the Olympics going to China as the sporting world saying "We think China would host a great Olympics" Having said that I don't know enough about how international govts influeece their ICC representatives although I can't see Princess Anne taking too kindly to being told by Tony Blair who to vote for.

Meow!

Even if it is a bit tongue in cheek this post smacks of being dismissed.

BTW, i see the recent news coverage has totally moved and no-one is keeping an eye on what

Mugabe is up to.

Fark me a double post

I also think (assume) that economically we are dependent on China for so many basic goods now that economic sanctions would hurt us more than it hurt China. I am happy to be proved wrong on that assumption.

I suppose I feel that this is a moral issue as well as a political one, and therefore the government shouldn't NEED to have any influence for the decision to be reached not to take part in these games - the ICC/the sportspeople themselves could be choosing to make a stand. But then, like ONE so eloquently and persuasively put, the games are, after all, big business.

ONE - try to offend someone to whom your opinion could ever possibly matter. if you are ale to find anyone.

L
xx

he's probably putting together a pitch for the 2020 olympics

L
xx

Sports people on the whole have always resisted political meddling and it is big money at the end of the day.

If you were an athlete at the peak of your career, aiming to win the greatest prize available to you, you would have to be pretty moralistic and stong willed to turn down that opportunity in exchange for making a point about human rights in China.

? he's that scary and random that I would not put it past him.

You must be watching different news programmes to the ones I've been watching, as there's been loads of coverage of post-"election" Zimbabwe on the likes of Channel 4 News and Newsnight.

For instance, the surprise talks between Mugabe and Morgan Tsvangirai, the fact that the economy's probably going to collapse completely in a matter of weeks, meaning that Mugabe can no longer afford pay the army (hence the talks!) and, more relevantly (and surprisingly), the Chinese decision to ban Mugabe from attending the Olympic opening ceremony while he was actually en route!

He doesn't need to, surely? He'll just announce that the olympics have been given to him, and that anyone who says differently is an imperialistic BBC stooge.

That's not a bad idea, actually - and he can claim when only Zimbabwe and South Africa actually field any competitors that it's all a massive racist international conspiracy.

Well y'see now, it was you that started being bitchy....

And as for opinions/caring.. You can see how much the world cares about yours on most news broadcasts.

Enjoy the games now, y'hear......