I daren't ask for a payrise :(

I haven't, but my sister has. Just make sure you've done your prep, present your case, and ask for a payrise. The worst that can happen is they say "no".

Sometimes things just get forgotten. I had a member of staff in the same situation. Biggieh company. Once it was pointed out to them they realised that when dreaming up the new position they didn't take into account people who had been it for a while getting % raises. It was all sorted.

Why can't you calmly discuss your findings.

Yeah im in the same position. my work place is very strange with wages. someone who does the same job as me gets paid £1500 less than me PA and they have been there 2 years longer than me. another person told me they are on £1kpa more than me.

i went in last week and asked for a pay rise...i didnt get it but tbh it cant hurt to ask lol

its really frustrating though

Can you document that since your pay increase last year that you have continued to increase your responsibilities and workload? If you can then take all that with you and explain why you feel you deserve an increase.

The other thing you can do is talk about advancement. Explain you've been in the same job for 2 years and you feel you've excelled but that you need more scope to improve. Improvement means more money! I've never asked for a pay rise but I've asked for promotion opportunities and we worked out a plan. I did everything I was supposed to and I got a better job and a higher salary out of it!

At the moment, talking about it makes me upset. So I probably need to wait until my emotions have calmed down until I try and raise the issue, if I dare at all. Knowing me I wont bother and I will just continue to plod along, I need to get a back bone!

Are you a paralegal or PA? In what way are you training up the trainee?

Write a list of why you are doing a good job and why you should be offered a pay rise and ask for one. The worst that can happen is that they say no. So what?

You could then ask for extra training (e.g. those paralegal courses). That would give you extra qualifications and allow you to move on to a new and better paid position elsewhere.

You don't ask you don't get is my view. I had to ask for a promotion 2 years ago and it was a right mare but i got it.

Tbh i thin it's fairly common for paralegals and PAs to earn less than trainee solicitors. I know it's upsetting and frustrating but try not to take it personally. I'm sure they appreciate you greatly and would be upset to know you're upset.

many moons ago when i was a trainee there was a basic salary they had to pay you and it was more than £16K. I'm not sure if that still exists but my guess is that most firms would continue to pay that basic rate as the Trainees would ask why the previous year got paid more (if you see what i mean).

It's ok to be upset about this. You are upset because you feel taken advantage off. No harm in them knowing that.

For all you now the Trainee negotiated a salary increase with them so now they'll be used to people asking for more. Go for it!!

When I was a trainee, I found out our CEO's PA earned more than me. I was not impressed, but I also took that as an indication that they would pay more. I put together information about market rates, my role/responsibilities and the salary I was looking for, and gave it to my boss. I also told my boss that if I didn't get £X then I'd have to get a second job. I got a raise but it wasn't £X so I got a second job, and my boss found out when I told her I couldn't stay after 5pm because I had to go to my second job...at a pub. She was mortified - and they agreed to pay £X.

CityGirl is right that women are notoriously bad at asking for raises. If you don't ask, you don't get - and it's not personal, it's just business so just keep the request factual and unemotional.

Oddly enough, I am about to have a similar conversation on Monday.

I am a legal assistant training to be a chartered legal exec. In the last year I have gone from being admin support to drafting documents myself and running my own small case load etc.

I help to train the new trainees by showing them the ropes so to speak, they carry out the exact same type of work as I do and I am required to show them how to do it.

We have an annual review in December I think I might try and approach it then. I don't even necessarily want to be on the same trainee wage, just more than I am currently on would help my current situation.

Of course not

I am 29 in the midlands

If you are training to be a legal exec you should be on at least the same wage as the Trainee. If you are training the Trainee that should be acknowledged by way of salary in some way.

In all honesty i do not think it is appropriate for them to expect you to train a Trainee. It doesn't make a huge amount of sense. Are you saying that you are ultimately responsible for the Trainee or have they asked you to show them a few bits and bobs?

Don't wait until December. Go and see your boss and talk to them now. It's more stressful to wait until December and then raise it. If you have a quiet word with him/her now it won't be expected and they won't have the chance to think of an excuse.

Once you've finished your training i would consider moving firms or at least applying. If you get another job at a higher salary you can bargain with your current employer.

£16K is quite a low wage for what you're doing tbh - my guess is you can get a fair bit more than that.

Thanks for your help Halloweeny.

I am not ultimately responsible for the trainee, no, there is a training partner who they have their review with etc. Its more just showing them how things are done, how things should be phrased, who to call in which departments, how to draft, how to complete certain things etc. And I suppose you could say that would that of not happened for me when I started, but the thing is it didn't. I was the only legal assistant when I joined and I taught myself my trial and error. Sorry I sound really bitter there!!

Anyway, I am so glad it is almost the weekend.

Definitely ask for more money Daisymoo! Showing them how to draft etc is the supervisors job not your's. If they want you to do it they should pay you for it particularly bearing in mind that the wage you are on is lower than the trainees.

Tbh - my experience is that if you don't shout you won't get. People who shout loud will eventually get something. Don't be intimidated!! set yourself a date on which you will speak to the partner. Say what you've got to say and then schedule a review date with them. This is not on!

Citygirl is right - most women are underpaid quite drastically because we don't ask for more.

CILEx has a page on salaries: here. £16k does sound like the lower-end, and you should definitely put together a case to be paid more.

I disagree with Halloweeny that a person training as a CILEx that you should automatically be on the same level as a "standard" trainee (i.e. one that has done an LLB/GDL and LPC). I think it salary should be equivalent to the stage of qualification. Things I'd think about when putting together justification for a raise: Where are you on the qualification are you a student, member or fellow? Also, are you bearing your course and exam fees or is your employer paying? Did they pay for the trainee's LPC? Do you have a law degree or GDL? What rate are you being charged out at vs trainee - this can be leveraged that they see you both as equals?

It also sounds like you're buddying with a trainee - not really training them. Their training is the responsibility of the training supervisor and if you or the trainee make a mistake, it's on the supervising lawyers, not you. Showing them the ropes is something you should highlight as how you've stepped up and grown professionally, and how you're a team player.

Also, try not be bitter or take it personally (yet). If you are the first CILEx trainee then this firm may not realize that they could do better. I was the first trainee solicitor, and I really had to educate my employer on what I needed. This can be sorted out - but you need to have the conversation about salary.

I have my LPC. I was struggling to get a TC so my employer said they would support me in being a legal exec instead. They have paid for this but it's low hundreds cost wise. As the wedding is looming and we want to start a family soon after I chose to do it so I'd have some level of qualification before maternity leave commenced.

We are currently on different charge out rates but my target is higher. Thanks for your comments. Definitely gives me something to think about

Do you know why they were not willing to take you on as a Trainee? If not, have you asked them straight out?

How far into your legal exec training are you?

I didn't get great grades on my LLB and LPC, I'm just not great at exams. Which is one of the reasons I think I wont get a TC, there are people out there that are academically better than I am.

My employer also said they would be reluctant to give me a TC as it would mean losing me from the department and theyadmitted they were selfish in saying that but it showed my worth to them.

I am six months into my CILEX path.

That's stupid and selfish of them! i'm not impressed.

What did you get if you don't mind me asking? Didn't do me any harm. Don't let people make you feel disappointed with yourself! in 5 years time nobody will even care what you got as long as you have decent experience and happy clients.

I know someone who got a 3rd. After training she worked hard and she now works for a very well respected firm and heads up their family law department. Nobody would dare question her ability as a lawyer. You can do it - don't be put off. Grades are just one aspect of your suitability. Being a good lawyer is not about what you got in your exams.

My experience of Trainees (i've had a few) is that the ones who get amazing grades do not necessarily outperform people who didn't do that well. In fact, i've had one who had amazing grades and no common sense. He was so useless! Another got a 2.2 and was the best trainee i have ever had. I could just let him get on with it.

I would urge you to carry on applying for training contracts and I would also tell them that you are not happy with this situation. If i may be frank with you it sounds to me like it suits them to keep you as an ILEX student so they can pay you less. That might be me being cynical though. You deserve better imo!

Sorry that made no sense... I meant to say i didn't do as well as expected at degree level (admittedly made up for it at LPC), but it didn't do me any harm.

There's not much that I can add but working in this profession, I have to agree with the advice Halloweeny has given you.

It's not easy to get a training contract by any means but persistence and standing up for yourself is the way to do it. Firms that make promises of training contracts (I appreciate yours hasn't) or keep people from realising their potential just so they can keep them on minimum salary disgust me!

Just to reassure you, there are genuinely lovely firms out there that support there staff and consider how to remunerate them to keep good people. Don't give up & keep one eye on moving if you have to.

Fiona Shackleton has a third.

I know people who have 2:2s and obtained training contracts including during the height of the recession. It's definitely possible. It's not easy, but even people with 2:1s and 1st don't find it easy. Halloweeny is right - degree classification and grades start disappearing post-qualification.

Also, there are firms that don't have a minimum degree requirement. Interestingly, E&Y (I appreciate it's not law) scrapped their degree requirement: here.

I hate to say it - but there is a misconception from some in the legal profession that a LEx isn't as good as being a solicitor. If I had completed the LPC (and therefore wanted to qualify as a solicitor) and my employer told me I was good and valuable to them and they didn't want to lose me then I would be pretty hacked off if my employer put me on the CILEx route instead of giving me a TC.

Here here Ash! There is a lot of disrespecting of qualified legal execs that goes on and a lot of the time they are negatively viewed despite the massive amount of training and on the job experience that goes into it.

Completely agree that it is ridiculous to demand someone switches routes mid way through (unless, of course the person desperately wants to). In my book, if you're good enough to be a legal exec then you're good enough to be a solicitor and vice versa.

What they said!

Legal Execs make excellent lawyers (one of the partners in my department is a legal exec and he's fantastic). i think it's out of order that they are making you change routes. No offence, but they are treating you badly and I am shocked by this.

I am guessing you paid for the lPC yourself? You've invested in a plan. Don't change it to suit them and their finances.

I really want to know who your employer is so i can slag them off to everyone i know! haha!!!

Hi All

So I went quiet on this as I was upset and didn't know what to do. I spoke to someone in my team who advised that the appropriate time to bring this up was my end of year performance review.

I had that today.

I was scared going in, not knowing if I would pluck up the courage to ask. But I did it. I wont find out until end of Dec/Jan time what if any payrise I will get but I have been told it will be considered.

So that's it, ive done what I can do. its now down to the powers that be. But I feel so much better for asking

Thanks for everyones tips and comments.

Good for you Daisymoo! You don't ask, you don't get IMO. The worst they can do is say no, but at least you won't have the uncertainty any more.

Can I ask, what would you do if it is a refusal? Would you look elsewhere?

Well done you. If they say no then they will give reasons why it was considered and decided again which gives you an opening to dispute it etc. same if they say yes and it's rubbish. Also gives you the opening to ask what you need to achieve to move up etc.

Well done you!