Ian Watkins

Words absolutely fail me with this story. Sickened to my core. How can any mum do that to her own baby. Vile disgusting human beings.

Oh goodness I haven't read about it lately, only when it came up last year or whenever. I am still shocked about him now

It’s utterly vile and evil.

I've just read a news story on it. My god. Sickening. Some of the evidence detailing what he said to those women will stay with me for a long time

It's horrifying. So disgusted by this story. How so called "mothers" can be so evil. I don't know what the hells going on with the world, so much horror and cruelty by humans it's unreal

I've just read it, which I shouldn't have. I feel sick to the pit of my stomach, it brought tears to my eyes. Babies, just tiny innocent babies ?

This is exactly how I felt. Can't believe mothers would allow that to happen to their babies. Too awful for words.

I still cannot get my head round this. It's vile. Why he or the mothers did or said any of it is beyond me it upsets me greatly. Those poor babies, and other victims.

Absolutely disgusting. I wish I hadn't read it to be honest. He is vile and words fail me for the mothers.

By pleading guilty at least the jury are spared hearing all the details. I read they would have been offered counselling afterwards because the evidence they would have been reviewing was so distressing.

I know this is no consolation to the children involved and in no way makes him a better person

This, I wont read details either. Truly horrifying.

Reading it made me sick to my stomach. But I can't understand the women involved. It's their own children! How on earth could they willingly let that happen?

The whole thing is horrific. But without making excuses, does it not make more sense that the mothers were groomed? Two groupies, hero-worshipping a sick individual who slowly normalised the whole shebang?

No.

Any right-thinking person (most especially a mother, although I realise that is possible a contentious statement) would absolutely not EVER think this was even touching the edges of normal. No hero-worship in the universe would persuade most of us to do anything like this.

There was a thread on this aaaaaages ago. I think he'd been doing all sorts of weird stuff with fans and some had said something along the lines of the truth will come out one day. Think Rizzo posted something about it?

It just beggars belief really. The whole situation.

What AC said. I haven't read the whole report. I felt physically sick about halfway down.

Me too. Used to have a go at my ex when he played their CD. Just sounded whiny/droning andnever ending

I've never even heard of them. Whatever.

Are you saying that you don't think it possible for people in the thrall or fear of another to be psychologically and emotionally abused to the point where their perceptions of normal behaviour are severely compromised?

No no no, there is no way a 'normal' person/mother would ever in any way shape or form be coerced into allowing that to happen to their baby. They must already be seriously f@cked up. No excuses. None.

This with bells on.

No, or there'd be no domestic violence or emotional abuse apart from anything else. However, I would moot that in the huge MAJORITY of cases (of any level of abuse) a mother will protect her children. It is an instinct and normally very hard to override.

I'm not suggesting they were coerced. I'm suggesting they were broken down (and it's more a point for discussion, rather than specifically addressing this case). It has happened before and it will happen again - there have always been parents complicit in the sexual, physical and emotional abuse of their children at the hands of another. And complicity can be gained by fear but also by normalisation.

But possibly already seriously f*cked up, agreed.

I'd say that for this to happen you would have to have such a warped view of "normal" in the first place, that you'd probably be a victim yourself (still not an excuse)

Understood and agreed.

I don't buy that you can be broken down. Not in cases such as this. You've gotta have it in you to start with? As a mother sat here with my 10 month old on my knee smiling away at me (same age as those babes) there's nothing NOTHING in the world that would ever 'break' me down to think that such behaviour is normalised

this is what I was tryin to say but better EF

I agree with Footers.

On the risk of being egged and booed here, I honestly believe the whole thing is sad for all those involved, including the perpetrators.

Who are we to judge them this harshly? We don't know their story, their families, their background. Even if we did, we still couldn't make a judgment. It is deeper than that.

Don't get me wrong, I am glad society is reacting to it as a wrong and awful thing to do. At least it takes us away from the times where pedophilia was something normal and something to be proud of (and there are parts of the world where this is still the norm, sadly!). But is purely and solely condemning it good enough?

Of course in an ideal world, everyone would behave sanely and conform with what is wrong and what is right, going look for help when we feel we might be clinging towards something that is evil and knowingly wrong - after society was civil enough to start considering it wrong, mind you, like I said above.

"How could they do such a thing?" We will never know. We are normal people and we are not and probably never will - thankfully - be in their skins to know. It must be a terrible and dark place to be in.

I have this view that they are not "evil" , but they are all mentally and psychologically deviated. It is the only reason I could accept people doing stuff we don't consider normal and instead utterly atrocious. My view is, until we accept that fact, these things will keep happening. Marginalizing those who still break the norm instead of studying and treating where that desire to do so comes from, unfortunately the cycle won't break, and this won't be the first or the last time it happened.

We have to drop this "burn in hell" and "this is pure evil" - like Satan had something to do with it - attitude and see it from a rational point of view, mental health still has a long long way to go, not only on this subject but so many more.

I am not saying or comparing it with, but remember homosexuals were (and still are!) accused of the same thing. Until a while not long ago they were evil and atrocious and plain wrong. With the help of mental health advances, we finally got confirmed that they are not sick, or deviated or evil or atrocious. They are simply attracted to the same sex.

I think being attracted to kids is different as it is a power unbalance deviation more than choosing which sex your partner will be for you to get aroused. Society has taken the step to say is wrong to act on the pedophile desires, but how to stop them from happening? I won't ask what if it happened to you as I know everyone will answer "it would never happen to me", so I ask, what if it happened one of your loved ones?

Therefore, I won't judge them either way. My heart and thoughts go to all involved, the victims, themselves and the families and friends. Must be a tough time to be close to them and be their loved ones.

When my children were born I realised two things.

I would die for them

I would kill for them

Simplistic, but the HUGE majority of parents feel this way, I am certain. Therefore there has to be something extremely wrong with a parent who disregards instinct to the depraved extent of these women. "Starstruck" just doesn't do it for me.

Sorry but homosexuality isn't on the same level. That's love/lust between consenting adults. This is rape of a baby.

Ok, I think the discussion is taking a wrong turn by what I said before.

My point raising homosexuality was that in the past (and still is for some people) it was seen something evil and deviated. Only mental health advances has shown those who resisted the truth - that you are attracted to same sex and that is neither sick or bad - to accept it as normal. And still doesn't convince some people! My point was basically to show mental health can help with finding out about why people get attracted to who they do. On the case of homosexuality it did a good thing to break a notion that was pure prejudice and negative response.

I have also said it was not comparable, I would never mean anything like that!! My point was that pedophilia is more about attraction to the power of controlling someone who can't make their own decisions for themselves (same goes for animal abuse, to which he had images as well, who knows if he also acted on it?) and the thrill of doing something that shouldn't be done.

My point is mental health should have more resources and tools to study it, treat it and maybe one day we'd be rid of it.

The attitude to throw them to rotten do nothing for the cycle to be broken.

Like Footers said, it is not new parents knowingly consenting to sexual abuse. Is it the norm? Absolutely not. But is not something that just popped up for the first time for such outrageous response like you didn't know it happened.There are levels of psychological and emotional damage here in all involved and I think this has been quite agreed on this post as well.

Absolutely and totally this.

As a mother, I cant even comprehend what these people were thinking putting their babies in this situation.

I couldn't care less about their backgrounds or what has happened to them in the past. They planned for someone to do some unspeakable things to their baby. I don't think they're evil - there are no words available to describe what they are.