Idiots on Sky news

How could a Geisha be offensive?

Anyway Spanish are racist, known for it - take the Lewis Hamilton incident

http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/02_01/LewisHamilton_800x527.jpg

Brian are you deliebrately missing the point?

Would you say it was ok if the games were being held in an African country where being black is the defining characteristic, in the main, and an olympic team had "blacked up" to show their support for the country and its people?

Of course not as it's hugely racist. By making the slanty eyes gesture they are being massively offensive. I can accept that maybe they didn't mean to be, but it does show an incredible lack of empathy or common sense.

(a) Chinese

(b) if you read some of the comments on the original story, you will see some of them are from Chinese people who are indeed offended.

Pondering.... Paki .... Aussie....

Hmmm?

SOME spanish are racist, in the same way as SOME english are racist.

I'm also PMSL that one of the 'more important' things brian has to worry about it terminology that 95% of people would only be aware of by watching 'the bill' ?

I'm quite shocked at you BP.

I'm shocked but not surprised by the Spanish team, however; I think many of our European cousins are hideously racist, and it's not considered unacceptable in the way it is here. Things like monkey chants at football matches and the comments about Hamilton are still relatively common.

And labelling people as "pc" is just plain lazy. And I too would rather be pc than anything that could be construed as racist.

Quite true & yes I should not Label all the same, but Spanish do have quite an outward show more so than any other nation.

According to Boston courts we Irish are traditionally racist....

ETA:- actually 'bigotted', rather than racist.

"an outward show more than any other nation". rubbish. youre talking about individuals, you cant label a country as "being known for it", christ, thats just as prejudicial as the subject of the OP.

ye

yep, all of them, quite right. did i mention that you and brian sound like right knobs?

Back for a bit.

I sound like a knob for not being offended by it? Wow Legless, you sound like somebody whose opinion I should really value!

It is kind of amusing that some of the posters on here have come out with comments which could be translated rougly as 'it's terrible being racist it's not acceptable in britain but those Europeans...' doesn't anybody else see the irony in that?

Regarding being offended, people are always going to be offended by one thing or another and what will offend some others won't even bat an eyelid at. I don't think it's the actions of another that is offensive so much as the intent and feeling behind them. What I don't think you can do is live your life worrying about what you can and can't say.

I've seen people (not from liverpool, I am) dressed up as 'scoucers' on nights out and rather than be offended and I've just gone and had a right laugh with them with calls of 'calm down, calm down..' etc. It was intended as a bit of fun, and taken that way, which I'm pretty sure is the same wasy the Athletes meant it.

Do you mean saying anything that could be construed as racist such as "I think many of our European cousins are hideously racist?" I haven't said anything even remotely racist, but you have just labelled an entire continent!!!

PMSL that you're quoting me and still not actually reading what's there. The word MANY - which is true in my experience and from what I read about govt policies in some countries. I did not say the continent was racist, I did not say all Europeans were racist, I said many were.

And since when is "European" a race for me to be racist against? Or do you really believe that all Europeans are Caucasian?

Go take your excessive exclamation marks and spin.

[Hooby dons top hat, picks up cane and tapdances in, Avenue Q stylee, in an attempt to lighten the mood]

Everyone's a little bit racist
Sometimes.
Doesn't mean we go
Around committing hate crimes.
Look around and you will find
No one's really colour blind.
Maybe it's a fact
We all should face
Everyone makes judgements
Based on race...

[double stomp sidestep.... kick ball change... shuffle gliiiiiiiiide]

Everyone's a little bit racist
It's true.
But everyone is just about
As racist as you!
If we all could just admit
That we are racist a little bit,
And everyone stopped being
So PC
Maybe we could live in -
Harmony!

[exit Hooby, high stepping, stage right]

Love the kick ball change, obviously had a bit of dance training there!

Oh 'many' I see as in 'mass generalisation of a population based on geographic location' rather than actual racism against a specific race, which I didn't actually accuse you of, i just said you labelled an entire continent, which you seem to be agreeing with.

I think your comments have an incredible duality of standards. On one hand you think it's terrible for somebody to post a picture, probably in a light hearted way because you think it could cause offence and in the same post you go on to tell somebody to go and 'spin' which is obviously designed to cause offence.

'tis a wee bit hypocritical don't you think?

Brian, you are making a massive assumption about this picture, based on what? You keep saying that it is harmless, light hearted etc You have no more idea of the intent/thought etc behind that image than the rest of us. You make ridiculous comparisons. I am not sure you at all even comprehend where anyone who IS offended or thinks it could cause offence is coming from. You demonstrate this lack of comprehension continually with your 'it's like wearing a bowler hat', 'it's like dressing like a scouser' (whatever that means). It is absolutely nothing akin to those things, and I think you are therefore massively missing the point.

L
xx

I'm not "agreeing with you" on any level.

As for the rest, oh whatever, you're not worth my time.

Brian - do you not understand the difference between a physical feature and an item of clothing? I would have thought it was quite obvious. You're coming across as very obtuse.

If you look at my posts, very early on I did say Ok a better comparision might be to say if at the London games, if another team put White face paint on would we be offended, but that seems to be ignored and everybody is going on about the bowler hat comparision, probably because they are outraged enough to criticise, but not actually read the entire thread.

Oh and the scoucer thing isn't just shell suits, its a big curly wig and a mustache which are physical features.

Brian, I replied about the white faces and made some other points to you as well but you seem to have missed or ignored those!

Ok, Brian, using your example, and seeing as you ignored Alison asking this question. If the games were being held in an African nation where the majority of the population were black, would it be ok for us to paint our faces black because the intent was to be 'funny and lighthhearted'?

Or, focussing on something else you said, if it really is all about the intent, can I go around calling people nxxxxx, or pxxx because I mean it in a light hearted way and anyone who takes offence should appreciate that?

I don't think my assumption is any larger than yours. We've both seen a photo, I'm assuming it was probably meant in good humor and not designed to cause offence, others are assuming it's because the people in it (along with the spanish population in general) have issues towards the oriental race and their motivations are somewhat darker.

That is of course unless you know the individuals in question and understand their motiviation, because to typecast them because they are Spanish, would be incredibly prejudiced wouldn't it?

With regards to bowler hat etc, please read post from begining and you'll see I compare it to wearing white face paint but few chose to actually respond to that.

Brian, Alison and I have both referred to your 'face paint' reference. Are you deliberately ignoring us? Could you respond to that please?

Brian - you are still ignoring the few of us who have responded about the white face business.

And while the Spanish might have been misguided in their actions and didn't mean to cause offence, it doesn't stop the gesture from being inherently racist. Some things are, whether you like it or not.

I also responded re: the face paint. Brian is conveniently ignoring that.

And quite how a moustache and curly hair can be considered Liverpudlian racial features, I don't know. How ridiculous, and totally incomparable to "slanty eyes" gestures too. Come on Brian, any more straws to grasp at? ?

Ignoring Brian's comments and just commenting on the initial post by Winkle i'm really shocked at that photograph, sometimes I see a news story and think it's political correctness gone mad but certainly not in this case, it can't be seen as anything but racism and anyone who thinks differently is possibly a bit simple.

Give it up guys, it's clearly political correctness gone mad and the inability of us po-faced and humourless lefty Guardian reader types to take a joke. After all, if a sports team wants to make hilarious "slanty eyed" faces, or black up, play banjos and sing "Mammy" for that matter, then it's not meant to give offence.

Can't we take a joke any more?

You're right, PL, the whole country's going to hell in a handcart, and other things simple (lovin' your work, Sun), bigotted people say.

I think the answer is it depends on how you think they will take it. If you think the they would take offence then now you shouldn't do it, if you think they would have a laugh about it then yes, by all means do it. My point is that this is probably a bit of a storm in a teacup, they may have unintentionally caused some offence, but I don't think that was the deep routed motivation behind the picture.

The other point I haven't really got across very well is some people are just offended by everything, while others are more robust and have a laugh. Teasing and humor between nations leads to better relations than not saying anything because you are too worried you might cause offence. If people could just have a laugh about things like that the world would be a more harmonious place.

Moral outrage doesn't really add a lot to good relations, this is what I meant by the PC brigade. Being offended by everything that isn't said and done in a neutral way is likely to cause a lot more problems than having a joke and a tease.

quote "Or, focussing on something else you said, if it really is all about the intent, can I go around calling people nxxxxx, or pxxx because I mean it in a light hearted way and anyone who takes offence should appreciate that?"

Of course not, you shouldn't deliberately offend anybody. That said pretty much any opinion you have can be taken offence at or interpreted in a way you didn't mean it to be. I don't think you can live your life terrified of what other people may think and I feel really sorry for people who do because they have imprisoned themselves.

What you have to remember is there is very little fact in life, it's mostly opinion, so everything you say be be disagreed with on the most fundamental level and just about everything could offend somebody.

So with that in mind how can you react when somebody 'offends' you? Well you can morally outraged which doesn't really acheive a lot or you can laugh it off or just choose to disagree. Calling somebody a xxx etc for disagreeing with you doesn't do a lot for good relations. If people could just choose to disagree the world would be a lot better place.

Yes, the world would be a better place if we all just ignore racism as long as it's meant in a "nice" way. Ok then.

That's it for me, no more reasoning from me. I'm obviously someone who is offended by everything and can't take a joke. Ah well.