Idiots on Sky news

Do you think the Chinese laughed at that photo? I don't, do you? It's racist, Brian, maybe unintentionally for sure, but racist all the same and they should have known better.

You have waffled on and on and not made one bit of sense. You have made, however, a lot of contradictions.

I can only conclude that you are full of hot air and should get back, tout suite, to 1974.

Brian I am astounded. Previously I had thought you to be a fairly sensible person.

However this clearly can not be the case if you think it in any way acceptable to "black up" on the off chance it won't cause offence.

I'm not one of these people who easily takes offence to things and can't be doing with a lot of PC nonsense, but inherently racist gestures and actions (even if done with the best intentions in the world and not meaning to cause offence) doesn't make them non-offensive.

Please tell me you aren't really this naive and are just arguing the case for the hell of it?

Over 12 hours later and i'm still chortling that the police using codes like IC1 is considered horrifically PC and ill thought out by brian ?

brian, how about my point about if children were pulling 'slittty eyed' faces in order to mock another child? would that all be just robust good fun too? should the teachers or parents just let it go?

Brian, it doesnt matter that the intention was not to offend. the whole point about considering other cultures, races, people etc is to *think* beforehand "hmm, might the butt of this joke find it offensive?" and clearly this did not happen here. the people behind this image have showed amazing naivety and ignorance, and youre showing the same by your arguments. Please accept that simply because there was no deliberate intention to offend, does not mean that offence is not taken.

Whenever I hear anyone use the expression "PC brigade" it remind me of a brilliant bit on the Now Show where they called 999 and the PC brigade were dispatched like on Trumpton (Pugh pugh Barney Mcgrew...) that went something like, "Jew Jew Muslim Hindu Bisexual Lesbian Gay" ? Noone will have a clue what I'm talking about, I fear, but it's hilarious ?

Under my scheme of things if the kid in question was laughing about it and doing some other kind of tease back and they were laughing about it too then yes, that's exactly what should happen.

If the child was being bullied, no, something would have to be done about it.

Would it in either case be better to have a meeting with with parents to talk about 'how very serious' the actions are, then have another meeting among the school governers to discuss the childs future at the school, resulting in 'setting an example' by finally exlcuding the child from school? what would you do if two kids where having a laugh and a joke together?

Brian, I'm going to speak slowly so you get it.

It. doesn't. matter. what. the. intentions. are.

Those two children may be having a 'laugh' with each other, but those two children will interact with others who may not find it funny, then they'll grow into adults who will think it's acceptable to to take the piss out of people's racial characteristics. That is not on at all. Do you see?

<am starting to lose the will to live>

No I DO get that. I understand completely that some people have been offended.

I just think it's a bit of a storm in a teacup. Some people are going to call it terrible and punishment should be metered out, I was just trying to get the opinion across that yes, they probably shouldn't have done it, but I don't think it was designed to cause offence.

OK, something else here which you don't understand, and let's face it this thread is so prevalent with this that I have to wonder if someone has nicked your log in to make you look stupid - I haven't made any assumptions. You have, becaused you are stating time and again that is was 'probably light hearted' and 'not meant in a racist manner'. Stuff like that. I haven't commented on how it was MEANT to come across, as in my own little PC gone mad, lefty, tree hugging, lentil knitting, henna dyeing world the INTENT doesn't need to have been malicious for the ACT to be racist. It can just be ignorant.

As for the white face paint thing - I cannot recall a time when I have seen that/heard of that before. And therein lies the major difference. You are grasping blindly at non existent straws with your analogies as they simply bear no correlation to what has actually occurred. You are either genuinely missing the point, OR you have one of many people who have an issue with others being PC. Not realsiing that people aren't PC for the sake of it, but because they genuinely care about not deliberately offending other people.

And polease don't imply that I am typecasting people because they are spanish - there is nothing I have typed which in any way suggests this, and just further illustrates your own ignorance.

L
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Brian - you are contradicting yourself now. I'd stop digging now you're in a rather deep hole.

oh my goodness. i'm getting flashbacks to fool factory's 'chinky' thread and some nobber called welsh gold or something who said she had a 'really good' mate that she called 'chinky lynn' and oh how they all laughed about it ?

who said anything about parent/governer meetings and children getting excluded? a simple 'dont do that, its not pleasant behaviour and might upset people' would suffice

Oh, and while you're answering questions, pleeeeease explain why IC1 etc is politcal correctness gone mad, as i still think that's dead funny ?

No need to speak slowly I understand your view, I just disagree with it. Sometimes that happens. It doesn't mean we have to insult each others intelligence.

You disagree that things can be racist regardless of the intention?

If that's correct, then I think it's perfectly valid to assume that person is of limited intellect.

<Roy Walker> Say what you see...

I think that soemtimes it isn't POSSIBLE to insult someone's intelligence

L
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Ok just for the record, I can't answer everybodies questions indvidually, too many of you.

IC1, IC2 etc are just lables for White, Black etc. Why on earth can't they just say Black or White?

Apparently the police changed it 'RC' codes because of political correctness where RC stood for 'racial code', which was later considered to be politically incorrect, so they changed it to 'IC' which stands for 'Identification Code'.

Apparently the IC1, IC2 groups are too broad and some groups don't want to be defined as say 'Black' because they are Black African, or Black Carribean etc. So there are now a total of 17 codes to remember.

So a poor copper is trying to catch somebody who has run into a crowd he's got to shout over the radio "they've gone into 'x' street, they are wearing blue overalls and are......hang on a minute (looks up code in book) M1 or possibly M2, it's hard to tell without asking..." to which his partner stops running, pulls out his notebook slowly runs finger down list of codes and looks up M1 and M2 (mixed race Caribbean or mixed race African) and starts scanning the crowd. Meanwhile these guys have gotten away.

Whats wrong with 'Bob we are looking for two mixed race men, wearing blue overalls'. Seems a lot more practical to me and is that really racist?

I know the police have a LOT to remember, but I do have a little faith they can remember these codes. Also, surely it's quicker to give a code than to say 'mixed race caribbean' anyway?

L
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No, if you read the post you would see that I said it is intention that is really important. Go and read it again.

Even when we're all asking you the same thing?

because say if they were with someone who they thought was responsible for a crime, and they asked the radio operator to repeat the description and they said 'a black guy with a yellow tshirt' the suspect may think 'oooh thats me' and leg it?

as it happens people do tend to know a lot of the IC codes due to shows like 'the bill' (probably more than me tbh as we don't use them in west yorkshire) but i'm sure this was the origin of the code words

also the home office want this info for statistic analysis, so the codes are simpler for them, can be imput more easily etc

oh and the extra codes for the, say, african origin wouldn't be used when they're chasing or looking for a suspect. thats just for the home office data. ?

i'm failing to see why this is so PC

You read it again. You have contradicted yourself over and over, the intention is NOT important, it is racist regardless of the intention. A person who would disagree with that, as I've stated, must clearly be of limited intellect.

God, you're thick.

I wouldn't be insulted by you lous, I'd just assume you hadn't learned the skills to hold a debate without insulting people who disagree with you. It's not your fault.

I would expect nothing less. It is, after all, all about the assumptions with you, Brin

L
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I'm certainly thick skinned that I haven't had to resort to name calling. Please can you show me where I have contradicted myself over and over and put your money where your mouth is?

I'm sorry you are unable to discuss an issue we disagree on without resorting to name calling, it's a really good skill to have.

I'm really curious, do you think it's terrible to cause offence by doing something that could be considered racist but OK to try and cause offence by calling somebody thick? I must admit I'm struggling trying to reconcile those two actions. The inside of your head must be a very interesting place!

Brian - I think everyone can see who the person making themselves look stupid on this thread is, and it certainly isn't Lois.

And for the record, these are the points you've been making over again in your posts:

They probably shouldn't have done it, but only because the PC brigade are likely to get offended (so in other words it doesn't matter that they might have offended the Chinese, it's only offensive to the "PC brigade")

some athletes having a laugh (whilst being horrifically racist)

I just don't think this is a particularly big issue (says it all about your mentality really)

I just don't see what the fuss is all about (says it all about your mentality really)

My point is if you were japanese would you really be offended? (I think the answer is yes, and the Chinese people who commented on the sky news thread were offended)

Brian, I meant to cause offence. Don't worry.

Brian, just as a matter of interest, if the athletes were 'just having a joke' can you explain to me where was the humour in it?

as i'm far from a po-faced PC brigader but i don't see anything remotely amusing about it?

I know and that is the really funny thing. On one hand you argue you shouldnt do anything that could be seen as racist because it's offensive then go on to deliberately be as offensive as possible. it's hypocritical.

I didn't plan to post on this thread again but I do find Brian's posts utterly baffling.

Can you really not see the difference between calling someone thick when time after time, write incredibly obtuse replies and making jokes that could offend an entire race of people? Really?

Whatever your thoughts on whether it's the intent to offend or whether or not people are offended that is important (and you do seem a bit confused on the matter), the general thing in our society is it's the latter that counts. That's not being "pc" it's being considerate to others.

Brian, it's not hypocritical at all. I am not being racist towards you or anyone else, I am not insulting an entire race based on ridiculous prejudices.

I am calling you thick (in hindsight I should have added ignorant) based on your posts on this thread, it's an entirely different thing altogether.

If you can't see what I'm saying, then I rest my case..

To be honest there are too many lines of argument going on here to answer them all and I've got work to do.

Basically, I think no they shouldn't have done it but I don't think it was meant offensively to the oriential race and the fact that a load of people who possibly are not even of oriental background have been offended by it have turned it into a bit of a storm in a teacup. I do think it's not a huge deal, just a bit of a error of judgement.

It is my opinion on the matter, If that makes me nob, thick, or gives me a certain mentality in your view then so be it.

I do think it's a shame we couldn't just agree to disagree but clearly that doesn't seem possible, to some of you it seems the only right view is your own and everybody else is a fool.

Still I'm going to follow my own advice, agree to disagree and bid you good day.

There is no such race as oriental

Orient means from the east - an oriental person comes from the east....it's not a race.

I think there you have just shown your ignorance and why/how you hold such views.

And if you look at the selection of comments you have made that I posted above, it is quite clear what you think about it.

Edited to add: The "Orient" is a term historically used in Western culture to refer to Asia.To describe a person as an "oriental" is now considered subjective and carries ethnocentric connotations, although in the past it was a standard term in English.