MMR / Jeni Barnett / Ben Goldacre

I was listening at the time of broadcast, and could not believe what I was hearing.

I know she is a bit contentious over some of her views, but this went beyond anything she has said before.

I ve been trying to get jeni barnett in cunts corner for the past three years, to no avail. i shall try again.

Badscience is unavailable - I think they might be experiencing quite high traffic ?

I can't bring myself to listen to it - my blood pressure is high enough over this. Just reading about it makes the screen go fizzy.

Ofcom complaints would be brilliant. The media in general is getting better about recognising that in some areas of science, there is no need to present a balanced view because one side is not actually science. However we then get something like this and it undoes everything else.

But then I'm a scientist so presumably am just part of the conspiracy?

BTW if someone will tell me exactly what to complain about in such a way that means I don't have to actully listen to *that woman* I will happily send one in. Am still smarting about my complaint about "100% chemical free fertiliser" being turned down because the ASA think the public are stupid.

I don't think not having listened to it stopped any of the complainers in Sachsgate ?.

Sign me up.

Is there a facebook group yet?

SGL was there some debate on it on R4 this morning?

How do I complain, I'll gladly do it. It's just another reason to hate the old bag.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=47955872103&ref=nf

Me too. I'm sick of having to explain to people why I'm giving my children the MMR, the level of ignorance out there is astounding and irresponsible broadcasts like this just serve to make it worse.

I know there are claims that the MMR jab has been linked to autism (where a strong link hasn't been proved) Is that right ? Have there been claims that the MMR vaccinations are responsible for other illnesses/conditions ? And am I right in thinking that there's no link between overdoses of antibiotics and increased occurances of measles and mumps ? (If I understand what I'm hearing, am ? - just want to check my understanding of the science bit is OK. Am not good on the science bit ? )

No they had random moron parent v. Professor Salisbury.

Cheers Flowery.

I've got the transcript printed out if anyone wants it mailed over - she's totally nuts and can't seem to diffrentiate between a view and eivdence based on years of research

There was a report about 10 years ago that claimed there was a link between MMR and autism. It's since been roundly disproven, partly because it had a sample size of only 12 children and partly because other studies have shown it to be complete bobbins.

MMR is now one of the best studied vaccines going. With any vaccine there is a tiny risk of a reaction but compared with the large and real risks presented by the illnesses (particularly to those with compromised immune systems) they are insignificant. MMR is safe. The "arguments" against it discuss things like "it's better to get immunity naturally from the mild wild strain of the virus" (though how you're supposed to ensure your child gets the mild version and not the one that leaves them dead I don't know) and other unscientific, hippy tripe.

The uptake of MMR is down to 50% in London. You might say that it is your choice whether you vaccinate your child and take the risk or not. Well, it is, but hte problem is that unless about 95% of the population is vaccinated we lose what's called the "herd immunity". This is what in simple terms keeps the diseases at bay, particularly it protects the remaining 5% of the population who cannot be vaccinated because they have immune problems (these are those children who are most at risk as well). Essentially, if you don't vaccinate your child you are not only risking their life but also my child's life.

There is lots of good info on MMR and why it's safe on Ben Goldacre's site and other places.

Antibiotics have nothing to do with measles/mumps/rubella as they are all viruses and antibiotics don't work on viruses.

Please. I don't think the PM system works but could you send it to ********@*********.*** ?

So, if the people around you are immune = they don't get anything = you can't catch it from them ? Thanks very much for that explaination, Hazel. Think I was pretty much on right lines, but with a very basic understanding of the issues. Will have to bookmark the Ben Goldacre site.

That woman has a severe chip on her shoulder.

WHM - its a bit all over the place but hopefully avoids you having to listen to her ... is mind boggling

That's essentially it. The MMR issue is one thing but some of hte rest of the arguments people use are just awful - essentially questioning the whole basis of immunology,

Can you pass it on to me when you get please H?

I think i got to the part where she says that most people aren't the 1 in 15 who die from measles. Well, yes, that's true, but I would guess that 2 of her children's class-mates probably are. And you try telling that to the parents of the girl who died recently in Geneva from measles. (It's on the up here as well.)

Transcript here:

https://scienceblogs.com/sciencepunk/2009/02/jeni_barnett_mmr_show_-_full_t.php

Words fail me. I've really wound myself up now!

<belm> 1 in 15 die. That's 6.5%. How high a mortality rate does she consider significant?!

I don't think I can bear to hear it actually. My passion for the MMR is about as great as my passion for Ben Goldacre actually, I cant' bear that either are getting critisised.

Once C is in bed and I'm not multitasking with yoghurt and hitched I'll read the transcript (shudder) and draft a general complaint if you like?

Http://www.ofcom.org.uk/complain/progs/specific/?itemid=286480

an excellent idea. i shall happily send it to ofcom

God, that transcript is virtually incomprehensible in places. Surely a radio presenter should be more coherent? And that's before you get into the mind numbing stupidity of the whole thing.

Have joined the FB group and invited all my friends!

Please - some of the logic she uses is beyond all sense and the whole allopathic thing makes me want to throw things

Hazel, that would be great. Ofcom accept internet submissions so it will be easy for everyone to get their complaint in. Worth noting that LBC have rejected any complaints already so there's no issue with complaining to Ofcom directly.

Yep, I'll def send one in, Hazel. Let's take her daaaaaaaaaaahn ?

That'd be great if you're able to Hazel.

The actual statistics for Measles are:

About one in 15 cases develop complications such as chest or ear infections. About one in 2000 will have a fit and in about one in 8000 cases, measles causes brain damage. One death occurs in every 2,500-5,000 (depending on age) cases of measles.

From here: http://archive.nics.gov.uk/hss/000426f-hss.htm