PGDE/PGCE in Primary - advice please?

Massive hug MY! Why are you unable to keep up with the paper work? (From an objective perspective I mean) is it a time issue?

I'm sure you can still pass!

Have a hug. ?

Right, brutal honesty time:

Are you 100% convinced that this is what you want to do? If it is then you'll find a way. I won't sugar coat it, teaching is hard and the paperwork won't go away but if it's what you enjoy doing it is totally worth it.

What have you got to do at the moment? I'll help in anyway I can. Definitely been where you are.

Basically, I am in school from 8am-6pm each day.

I then have to go home and do a four page lesson plan for every lesson, a one page evaluation for every lesson, a weekly reflection (maybe 700 words with references), critical incident evaluation (same), research on the school as local area, individual child observations, and still work on my assessments for Uni.

My fellow students are in from just before 9am til just after 3pm, and the expectations from the school and individual teachers are much lower. For example, if I teach a lesson with a PowerPoint, Q&A, audio clip, and maybe some comprehension and reporting from them I'm constantly told its not active enough, whereas others are getting gold stars for the same. I love the teaching and it's all I want to do, but I'm spending most evenings in tears.

MY I don't know much about teacher training but why are you in for so much longer than the other students?

Also how does it work in terms of which school you are at? Could you ask to change?

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This. Are they asking/expecting you to stay for as long as you are; or are you 'choosing' to? If they demanding this, you need to speak to a uni tutor urgently. I have friends that have done or are doing PGCE's and, as far as I can tell, this is most certainly not the norm. Sorry you're having a rough time ?

Different schools have different expectations. I landed an amazing school in a highly affluent area, the downside is that there are afterschool clubs every day, followed by some sort of staff development, and they have very high standards. I am expected to stay, I missed one last week as I was ill, managed the school day but my class teacher sent me home at 3pm, and according to him the head teacher notes my absence and he had to defend me. I spoke to my tutor yesterday and told him that I'm going to fail the placement if things don't change, he simply told me not to worry. I expressed my concerns at the amount of time I'm in school and he basically said tough, it's just the luck of the draw, I'm only here for three more weeks then it will be a different school, so grin and bear it really.

This is despite me being registered with depression, notifying him personally about my issues, and being on the waiting list for counselling services after applying to quit the course a few weeks back...there is just no support from him at all. He took two personal calls during our meeting despite me being visibly upset, and Tehran cut it short because he hasn't put enough money in the parking meter.

I seem to have all the *** at the moment. Part of me wants to make a complaint, but I just don't have the energy.

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That was the same for me. Except no car so had to leave the hosue at 6am each day to travel two hours to get to the school which was exceptionally far away. Plus the two hours back again. Luckily I was the start and end stop for the train. So it meant I could sleep on the train. I would have a kip when I got home and work 10pm to 2am and then sleep until 5.30.

I thought I would fail as well and nearly did on the paperwork. I actually had a 'nervous breakdown' on my course. Had to stop for a bit and come back and refinish the course. I'm still here ten years later.

I felt like the critisims were never ending but it has prepared me for the relentless negativity and no praise environment that is teaching!

I don't know what I am sayign really other than, I think the PGCE is really hard so that it weeds out the not sures and only the bloomin determined and arrogant stay. If you don't have a lot of self confidence it makes it more difficult to survive but you can (me)!

Sorry took so long to reply in between doing other stuff that you replied. The tutor on my course was appalling as well. He was sacked after our course finished... sorry given a reference... When havign a meeting with him about my depression he ahd to go and check something and he left the room and locked me in? I know the feeling abotu jsut having to get it finished and not having the energy. This the worst term. Once you get past Christmas it massively improves?

Have you bonded with anyone on the course you can offload to?

Thanks P, that helps massively. I am determined, I just don't know what to do.

To get me through this week I've decided to ignore the Uni paperwork as only do the school paperwork; I've asked for help on three occasions now from the Uni and been ignored so maybe this will make them take notice. I've also just emailed my tutor to tell him how disappointed I am with esterday, especially as I had personally alerted him to my depression before ever setting foot in school. If nothing else I have good grounds for a complaint or appeal of some sort if needed.

Just remember that the school can't fail you. To pass your PGCE you need to show you have met all the standards and pass any essays you have to do, so make sure you concentrate on those aspects. One overbearing school can't end your entire teaching career. I think you do need to 'grin and bear' the next 3 weeks but also remember that you only need to do what the uni sets you. I'm a little intrigued about how anyone could possible do a 4 page lesson plan. Our plans (that we often have to show to leadership) are only one page and they include all the objectives, success criteria, differentiation, assessment and overview of the lesson itself. What else is are they expecting from you?

If you want to PM me you can. I can send you some example planning if that would help you to see where you can cut corners.

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I had to on my course. I couldn't tell you what it contained now because there is no way I could do a four page lesson plan now! You had to account for EVERYTHING you may possibly say or do and expected mind reading of expectations from the children. It was awful and that was what took all my time. The school weren't able to help me particularly because they didn't know hwo to fill the four pages either!

MY - I think mental health problems in teachign are the big elephant in the room type thing and they find it really difficult to acknowledge or talk about. I am available to offload to but still struggle with paperwork now!

Mine must be very different to yours Éclair, basically only the school can fail me. I have three essays to do through the year, but they wont be a problem at all, you can achieve 35% and still pass. The class teacher and head teacher need to assess you in twelve different criteria, and if you fail three out of the twelve then you fail the entire placement and need to 'retrieve' it next year. My tutor comes out for one hour on two occasions all year, so it's entirely on the school whether you pass or fail the placement...and therefore the course.

The four-page lesson plan is set by the Uni and must be completed for every lesson. It includes Experiences & Outcomes, Learning Intentions, Success Criteria, Methodology, a breakdown (in minutes) of the entire lesson, what materials you will use (they need to be attached), what problems may arise, Health & Safety considerations, back up plans for if tech fails, etc., where you will deploy the classroom assistant, what you will do if they don't show up, and on, and on. Even my teacher said that the plans are insane, but they are required for every lesson in order to pass. It takes about 2-3hrs to complete a plan for a 1hr lesson.

I'm in Scotland so we now have Curriculum for Excellence. Basically, we aren't provided with any material anymore, we aren't supposed to use worksheets or workbooks if we can avoid it, every lesson should be fully interactive with very little in the way of written work.

MY - is the head of your course called Dr A... S... by any chance?

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Dr Ass? ?

No, the head of course is fine, but we don't see him ever.

My personal tutor has never been a tutor before, this is his first year...somehow it just always happens to me ☹️

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Ahh but does it?? It could be your mindset that leads to you being depressive that allows you to see the world this way - speaks the other person that somehow has these things happen to me too. If I am speaking any sense at all? Yes it does feel like these things happen to me all the time - although it was a colleague that pointed it out to me. *** things do happen to some people more than others BUT it depends on how you respond to it that matters. Either decide feck em I'm going to suceed despite the lot of you - I will survive or run the risk of laying down and dying.?

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That is harsh! I would have assumed it either would have been the university or the university and school placements.

I feel your pain as my nursing course meant lots of tricky placements, balancing assignments, early starts and late finishes etc. It is hard and it drains you a lot. The weekends full of work or assignments were not great either. I think you speak to the university again as your tutor is not being very supportive or professional.

I have emailed my adviser this evening and explained the situation. She has emailed me back already (about an hour ago, the workaholic!) and seems very keen to help me to find a solution. She said that she has heard from many education students this term with mental health issues, so it's nice to know I'm not alone. I was formally assessed by their disability service a month or so ago and formally registered as battling depression, so that gives me a massive advantage in terms of complaining about not receiving adequate support. It's not as if I haven't asked for help, so really they are failing me by not providing it.

I have emailed my adviser this evening and explained the situation. She has emailed me back already (about an hour ago, the workaholic!) and seems very keen to help me to find a solution. She said that she has heard from many education students this term with mental health issues, so it's nice to know I'm not alone. I was formally assessed by their disability service a month or so ago and formally registered as battling depression, so that gives me a massive advantage in terms of complaining about not receiving adequate support. It's not as if I haven't asked for help, so really they are failing me by not providing it.

I have emailed my adviser this evening and explained the situation. She has emailed me back already (about an hour ago, the workaholic!) and seems very keen to help me to find a solution. She said that she has heard from many education students this term with mental health issues, so it's nice to know I'm not alone. I was formally assessed by their disability service a month or so ago and formally registered as battling depression, so that gives me a massive advantage in terms of complaining about not receiving adequate support. It's not as if I haven't asked for help, so really they are failing me by not providing it.

I have emailed my adviser this evening and explained the situation. She has emailed me back already (about an hour ago, the workaholic!) and seems very keen to help me to find a solution. She said that she has heard from many education students this term with mental health issues, so it's nice to know I'm not alone. I was formally assessed by their disability service a month or so ago and formally registered as battling depression, so that gives me a massive advantage in terms of complaining about not receiving adequate support. It's not as if I haven't asked for help, so really they are failing me by not providing it.

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I know what you mean P, but others keep highlighting how much of a *** hand I've been dealt lately. It feels like 2013 just really hasn't been my year, but I'm still here, even if I'm not standing tall, at least I'm still here.

I'm at CBT at the moment which is helping me change how I view things, but it's a marathon, not a race.

Thanks for all your advice, it really does help to know that someone else has been there and made it, so thank you ?

Wow - sorry about the echo!

Haha l thought the echo was on my side at first when l viewed the message in my emails -l am a bit dead with a bad cold and sleep deprivation!

It is annoying the university don't come out to see you more at the schools. I had the same problem as in 3 years nurse training then no one ever came to see me.

Good to hear you have had a more positive response from the university. Sending lots of positive vibes too you and l hope if gets better. Like my course it does feel like they push you as hard and as far as they can, it often does turn into a survival thing!

View quoted message How far into your course are you? I'm an assistant head teacher now and can also say in my pgce I doubted wanting to continue but what I can say is that extensive planning was not what schools expected once you're qualified. Schools have cut planning to support mental well being and I think universities need to keep up with that but I also think they're testing your strength as there are times in can feel over whelming. If it is what you want stick with it and see it can be the most wonderful job. Just also remember you have choices right now.