Running a pub - any experience/advice?

Have they seen the accounts for the business?

I think there's a few people that might be able to help. GWTW and her OH I think runs/ran a pub maybe?

I have a few clients who run pubs and the problems that they have come across are :-

1) Very long hours, often 7 days a week

2) Organising staff rotas, dealing with sickness, training etc

3) Paperwork - keeping books, balancing the tills every day, dealing with the payroll and VAT returns

4) Health & Safety procedures, risk assessments, etc

5) Sourcing produce, drinks, etc

Sorry all sounds bleak doesn't it. As I say, no first hand experiences but these are some of the issues my clients have

I'm sure there is someone on here who runs a pub with her OH but I can't remember who it is

There's definitely a hitcher on her somewhere to is/used to run pubs, I'm sure she'll have better experienced and first hand experience for you but I've been in and around pub since a baby (grandfather worked in pubs) and it's not an easy life.

Long, long, long hours, and something I've always believed you do for the love of it, certainly not for the money.

You need good, reliable, hardworking staff to make it easier and they are not easy to find these days.

Typical days can start early with dray deliveries, fruit/pool table machine emptying, cleaners (or you have to do it yourself). Stock ordering, open at 11 (or earlier, some offer breakfasts and all sorts now). Late nights cashing up after closing time, bottling up, etc. make it at least gone midnight by the time you finish. Yes if you've got good staff you can leave it to others but I'm a control freak and couldn't leave things.

If you're doing food, it's a whole other set of the above for the food stuffs

I worked for Whitbread and took their management courses, but chose office work over the pub in the end because I decided it needed too much commitment from me as what was then a young age (24). I wouldn't like to try and combine it with a family too.

Like most careers I suppose, rewarding if it goes well, heartbreaking if not, and a lot of pubs are closing at the moment with the downturn in trade.

Sorry, that makes it sound all doom and gloom, it's not, it can be fun, but bloody hard work

Thanks everyone - yes they have seen the accounts and it all seems reasonable, the business has made money and the potential to make money, at least in the Summer. The owner is 73 and has run it for 30 years and wants to retire.

As I say, I think that my BIL has a lot of experience in things like organising staff and risk assessments etc but I think my sister is concerned about the negatives and whether they outweigh the positives - it'd be great to hear if anyone did enjoy or recommend doing it!

I used to own a small hotel which had a small restaurant, two busy bars and function rooms. This was a couple of years ago in the Highlands, Scotland. I owned it with my husband and we did it as a joint venture and a lifestyle change - moving from comfy jobs in London. We knew the area really well as my mum had lived in the village for a number of years; knew that the trade was there if the product was right; had the advantage of being the only pub in the village and knew some of the locals.

From my point of view I loved and I hated parts of it.

The hours were awful for me. I was usually up and in the kitchen cooking breakfasts from 7am; checking out guests; organising the staff to clean/start bottling up etc; doing books; ordering; receiving goods such as groceries, fish, beer; counting money; going to the bank which involved a round trip of 3 hours because of where we lived; planning menus; sorting out laundry etc - and this was all before we opened up at noon.

Depending on the day, Mr TB would get himself out of bed just in time to open at noon, or he might get up early to deal with the draymen - but usually that was me that took in the orders. In fact, Mr TB didnt like it at all and really didnt want to work, but thats a whole other story.

My afternoon was then spent checking in new guests, organising the staff rotas, doing the books, planning my advertising campaign, taking bookings, updating the website etc before the evening trade started at around 6pm.

My evenings were spent dashing between the kitchen, the bars and the restaurants - problem solving for the kitchen; making sure the waiters were on the ball; ensuring that the beer was running smoothly; dealing with guest queries and complaints; doing orders, and finally, before going to bed, making sure that the tills balanced, the place was locked up and all the money was in the safe. Depending on the night, we would then spend hours cleaning all the pumps and systems for the beer taps. I would usually go to bed for around 1am/2am.

We made mistakes. We didnt hire a proper chef and relied on a relative who was fantastic, but it was hard to discuss negatives with them as they took it too personally. We struggled to get local hire as we were only paying minimum wages, so ended up with some good, but really young, waiters who couldnt work behind the bar. We definitely didnt have enough staff as we thought we could do a lot of it ourselves which at the beginning was not practical.

I took it upon myself to utilise local produce so that took time to source local meats, fish, game, cheese, whiskey, beer etc. I had not realised the amount of time it took to source and meet up with suppliers.

We found the brewery representative was not helpful and only became better, when we threatened to go elsewhere as we were not tied. We got on well with the Health and Safety and in fact, had a surprise inspection the second day we took over the place! Then we had the Measures people out to check that all our drinks were to the correct amounts and percentages.

The positives for me were that I loved running the hotel and restaurant side but I absolutely didnt like the bar side. I have worked in pubs for years now, but when its your own place, and its your local customers who you know, coming in and getting steaming and causing problems, then its a whole other matter. I had to ban three customers and I hated it. One of them in particular was racially abusive to me as an English person and he ended up with a police caution. Ironic really as Mr TB is Turkish, is clearly foreign etc etc, but didnt have any problems.

I would, in a heartbeat, run a B&B with a restaurant again. In fact, thats what I am looking for right now. But I wouldnt want the bar and thats where you make the money. Your split on profits will come down heavily on alcohol and food.

I was lucky in that I am used to systems, so setting up spreadsheets to account for income and expenditure was easy. I did my own calculations for VAT and for staff wages, and my fantastic accountant double checked and helped me out. I got a good web designer in who created a nice website, a new logo and look for the hotel. I relied heavily on building up a good reputation and this was definitely working when we sold up.

Sadly for us, the hotel was not meant to be. Mr TB hated it and I couldnt do it on my own. Even with great staff around you, you still need fantastic support. So we were made an offer we couldnt refuse and we took it. The person who bought it from us only lasted a year, and now the hotel is onto another set of owners.

I think the idea of being in as managers is a good one. This would allow them to experience it and see if its really for them. After 6 months, I felt that we were in a groove with our place - the ordering was all set up, we had menus in place, a great relationship with suppliers, we knew how to run it.

If you want to ask any other questions, please email me : ***********@*******.***

I run a pub with my H (though he does most of it these days). Do you have any specific questions?

Can you tell me how big the place is (how many rooms/seats), barrelage figures? Have they seen VAT returns as well as accounts?

If both of the couple are doing it, it's not really condusive to family life tbh.

Sorry, just re-read and saw this. I take it they will only manage the place, not buy the freehold/lease?

If just the husband is going in as manager and he is paid a single salary, then while he will work long hours, it's actually a rather decent lifestyle.My advice would be to live above the pub if offered though; they will see far more of each other.

If they are going in as a couple with joint salary, they will be expected to do equal work and the money allocated for labour will reflect this. It's not always as simple as one working while the other looks after the kids.

Also, winter in cornwall = absolutely nothing like the summer season.

From a slightly different perspective, my parents were pub landlords back in the 70s/80s. I know lots of people worry about how their children will cope being brought up in that type of environment (I know my mum did) but I would like to say that for me and my sister it was totally, totally brilliant. So please let her know this if she is worried about the kids at all.

Frogmella may be able to help, if she's still around?

My parents managed pubs when I was growing up in the 80s and 90s. Me and my brother and sisters loved it, we were spoilt by customers, got free crisps and drinks, we liked helping out by collecting glasses, we played darts and pool to our hearts delight. When I was a teenager, I was popular as I had easy access to fags and booze too ?

But boy did my parents work hard, my dad was usually up by 7 and ddin't get to bed til 1 in the morning. He would take breaks during the day but the pub was his life. My mum worked in the bar too and they had regular staff but they still worked 7 days a week and nearly all year round (they would try and take a couple of weeks off in the summer). My brother runs a pub now on his own and rarely gets time off, but then he has unreliable staff to contend with as well.

Thanks everyone - i will pass this on to my sister and she may contact those of you with experience! The idea is that they manage the pub for seven months then will decide if they want to buy the leasehold which will be for 4 years initially. They will live above the pub - there's a flat and currently 6 bedrooms which at the minute aren't being let out but have been in the past (I think most are en suite)

I think that they are certainly going to trial it as I think they (and my BIL especially) will regret it if they don't give it a go. Appreciate all your comments - good and bad (better to be honest!)

I live and work in a pub which my FFIL owns, and it's great! I do keep thinking about doing it full time when i finish uni instead of teaching.. hmm... I would definately do the trial. x

Do they have food experience at all? It's really important that at least one of them has the basic food hygiene cert or above because they need to keep the chef in check with health and safety (many things get forgotten in a busy kitchen).

Also, at some point, the kitchen staff will let you down and you will end up in there yourself ?

I used to run a pub and wouldn't do it again?

As others have said, people think that landords only work when the pub is open but I used to work from 7am right through til midnight some days. Any long running members of staff soon left as they didn't want to work for "new people" Staff often just didn't turn up, I hated living in the accommodation and never felt like I could get away from it.

A lot of people think that they will be sat on the customers side of the bar as a landlord having a chat and socialising with the locals all night. That's soooo not how it is in most places and even if you work 24 hours a day 7 days a week the locals still say that they never see you ?

God i sound bitter don't I ??

Seriously though, if the accounts are good and they really want to do it then the best thing is to give it a go. Going in as Managers is a great idea.