Sickness in probation period

I'm sure they can't. Workers in 'probation periods' are well-protected. Even if they wanted to let him go at the end if it, they would have to demonstrate that they'd trained him properly, given opportunity to improve, set action plans to deal with problems.

Is it a national company or a little independent?

It's a national company with about 6 sites UK wide.

Since joining H has realised that his manager seems very 'higher the the law' type. Will let you know what has happened when I hear. Either way he if looking for a new job as his job role isn't as described at interview. Was initially told it would be 50/50 office and out visiting customers. Since getting there he has been told he is targetted at 5 hours a day on the phone. Having working in telesales roles I can tell you this is near impossible!

In which case, I'd be very surprised if they don't have well-written guidelines on these matters which comply with good business practice rules.

Your Boy will have received a handbook with his contract, which should contain all details of sickness/holiday/etc, along with any exclusions for probationary periods. However, I'm still sure they won't be able to penalise someone for being ill during this time (and you should be entitled to holidays etc). I'm surprised that the nurse wouldn't give him a sick note though. I think he should follow this up with a GP.

Workplaces used to view probationary periods as a way of getting labour on a short-term contract, easy to get rid of at the end of it. Absolutely not the case anymore. At my workplace, people within their probationary period have exactly the same entitlements as anyone else, and it is drummed into us that we should never view it as a "trial period", it's a "training period".

Same here with the only exception of pension & entitlement to gym membership, you don't get that until you've finished your probationay period.

He had a meeting with his manager and one of the directors..

They told him that he had missed too many hours of his probation period (he was off ill for 2 days and this morning to go to the doctors) and that they didn't think the reason warranted any time off as it is 'just a cough'. He explained that it is more that 'just a cough' and has also meant that he isn't sleeping.

They also brought up that he has been late 4 times. He can't remember 4 times but once was when it was snowing, where everyone was late. Another instance was today and the third isntance he can remember he was 3 minutes late for a 6 o'clock start. They had told him the day before to be in at 6.00am (his normal hours are 8.30-5.30) as he was going on training delivering with the driver and that he would be finished by 2.30pm. He eventually got told that the working day was over at 4.30pm but that they were going to the pub for a drink and would he like to go. When he said he wanted to give it a miss because he had had an early start his managed pulled him to one side to express his disapproval.

Today they have said they are writing him a letter with things they are unhappy about and things that need to improve. One is timekeeping, another is being involved with the team as they are disappointed he hadn't gone for an (out of work hours!) social drink. They also agreed to him finishing an hour earlier on a Friday to pick his daughter up as we have her every Friday (he said he would make this time back) and they have said that he is taking advantage of their good will on this.. he has only left when they said he can on these Fridays.

He went on his lunch at 1.15pm today and usually gets an hour for lunch. They phoned him at 13.40 asking where he was and told him he needs to be back for 2.00pm.

Does not sound like a very pleasant company to work for.

I understand why the nurse didn't issue a sick note as you don't need one for less then 7 days off, you need a self certification form which his employer should have, alternatively he can download one from here /common-health-questions/caring-carers-and-long-term-conditions/when-do-i-need-a-fit-note/

They sound charming.

I get the impression that whatever your H does there will always be something wrong there.

They're not. H is very unhappy working there. Oh, forgot to mention that H actually phoned the doctors and put it on speaker phone while he was in meeting just so they could hear him confirm that he had an appointment this morning! H is feeling sick to the stomach with how they are being with him at the minute. It feels like they are trying to find any excuse to make his life hell ☹️

This is definitely the case. It's just difficult because jobs are so few and far between that he is desperately trying to keep on the right side of them even when they are being unreasonable just to try and keep an income coming in!

It doesn't sound good to me. It sounds as though they are just trying to list reasons and have excuses to get rid of him in the future. Is he looking for other work still?

They sound awful, and agree that they sound like nothing he could do would be right. Is he applying for other jobs too? I know I would be!

He is and hasn't stopped. He has had the worst year with regards to jobs since being made redundant in March last year. He worked in digital marketing which is a renowned cowboy industry and has worked for about 3 different companies in the same industry since the redundancy. He didn't get paid from 2 of those companies and was completely helpless because they are the kind of business that shut down and open in a different name and because he hadn't worked for them for more than a year wasn't eligable for any sort of 'redundancy' pay from the government. He took jobs that he knew weren't secure because we have no money put aside to cover bills etc. if there aren't 2 wages coming in every month.

He thought that this job would be a completely fresh start because it sounded promising and is in a completely different industry, turns out that it is just the same!

Oh I feel so frustrated for you both

I can't believe that one of the things they don't like is him not going for out of hours drinks?! I don't work in an office but I work in a small team which I don't socialise with out of hours however I don't feel any less 'involved' or part of the team!

Is there anybody else he can go to? A different manager or something?

I know! I don't know how this can be raised as a work issue..? Today they have claimed that it was a team building exercise and he didn't want to participate. At the time it was a case of 'We're all going to the pub' and H replying 'I don't fancy it tonight mate after the early morning'.

He really needs to nip this one in the bud. Tell him to go to his GP and request a sicknote. He should tell them that his work are demanding to see one.

He needs to protect himself here and record all his interactions with his management team. I know it sounds like a massive hassle if he's looking for another job, but he'll struggle to get one if this shower sack him after a probationary period. Does his work use email as standard? Every time they ask him to do something unusual (like come in early at short notice) or anytime they have a problem with something he's done, he needs to record it via email with them. I do it routinely with my staff, to cover both myself and them. It should be something they are open to, providing they are sure they have right on their side.

For example...

"Person,
I just want to record that in our meeting this morning, we discussed ABC and decided that we would do XYZ. Can you confirm?
From me"

If they agree to time off with an arrangement to make it back, he should confirm in writing ("Please can you confirm that you have agreed for me to leave an hour early on Friday (at x pm), and that I will make the time up as appropriate?").

If they express disapproval at him not going to the pub (which is frankly ridiculous and I'd be surprised if it's not harassment - I mean, FFS, he could be Muslim for all they know), he should confirm in writing ("Apologies for missing the outing to the pub last week. However, I was disappointed to feel reprimanded for my absence. Please can you clarify the expectations placed upon staff for social activities?"). Do you know it's discrimination to hold "official work activities" at venues where some staff might routinely not be able to participate? The pub should in no workplace be considered a "team building activity".

Is his hourly lunch unpaid? If so, he needs to clarify (in writing!) whether he is supposed to leave the site, whether he is effectively on call, whether any time spent working can be claimed in lieu.

All these measures will protect both him and then. There's no need for him to be aggro about it with them, just friendly emails to get everything recorded.

As I said, he should have told them he is Muslim. And that they are discriminating against him by holding work activities in the pub.

Most of the jobs I have had (with (fortunately) the exception of this one) have not allowed any time off sick in the probationary period, usually 6 months. Thats the caring sharing charity sector for you. Completely legal, if mean.

(Also no pension or season ticket loan either and they are about the only two benefits we get)

This just sounds completely unreasonable. How are you meant to know whether, in that 6 months, you are going to fall ill and have no option but to take time off work! If it was for a prolonged period of time I could understand but for 2 days it just seems extreme. H was wary about having time off because he knew work were going to be 'funny' with him.

Probation cannot override any of your statutory employment rights. They are behaving in a shocking manner really, make sure your H plays exactly by the rules and gets everything in writing, and keep a diary, just in case.

Our expectation is zero sickness and two days off in probation would result in an extension, another two after that would result in a meeting where you could be dismissed.

Each case is judged on its merits but it tends to wheedle out casual sickness for the sake of it.

Your oh needs to keep a diary but tbh under a year he has no claim to unfair dismissal etc so not sure it will help I'm afraid.

Disaster struck this morning. I over slept by TWO hours!! I woke up at 8.30am.. the time when H was meant to be in work. I think nights of broken sleep from H coughing have taken their toll as I was asleep on the settee by 9.00pm and can't even remember my alarm going off this morning.

He hasn't gone in this morning and to be honest I can't blame him. I know this job was making him feel absolutely awful and so miserable. He has 2 interviews lined up so fingers crossed one of these comes off.