utility bills as prove of identity (rant)

You can get id cards for proof of age - what info do they have on them?

Aren't you on the council tax bill?

L
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I don't see the problem. You can simply call a supplier and ask them to add your name to the bill. This is what I did for MrKB. They now arrive for Mr X and Mrs X.

It certainly is annoying - won't they take a bank statement instead? This is how I solved the problem when I lived in the UK and lived in accommodation provided by work (therefore no utility bills).

I'm very much against the introduction of ID cards - I know the vast majority of countries have them but I think if such a thing exists the temptation to require people to carry them isn't far behind (as is the case in some EU countries). I don't think people should have to register their address with the authorities (which is what it amounts to) and I certainly don't think they should have to prove their identities e.g. to the police.

It does make things a little less straightforward though, I agree.

They're not proof of identity, they're proof of address and if banks etc want to let you open account then your address has to be proved in one of a limited number of ways - a utility bill is just one potential way. If you a UK driving licence with your address on this will normally do but you'd then need something else for proof of identity and bank/credit card statements, mortgage statements or a lease are generally also acceptable.

But frankly I'm pretty shocked you decided it appropriate to fake a utility bill considering you can just phone up and get your name on a bill.

I've always used my bank statement and have never had a problem... It's an account I keep open for providing statements as proof of identity. ?

That said it's stupidly easy to circumvent anyway. If you were naughty, like.

Gargh, Belgian ID cards- ? I can't believe you'd rather be legally obliged to carry a card round at all times that you're obliged to produce on demand, rather than just get your name added to a bill.

(A specific moan about Belgian cards here- in Belgium you're not allowed to call yourself by your married name, which is pretty scandalous from a civil liberties pov as it is. I was therefore told I could not have an ID card in my married name- the one on my passport etc- but had to use my maiden name, meaning I had two completely separate identitites in Belgium as anything requiring my passport had to use my married name. It's a completely insecure system. What a joke.)

That's bonkers KN! Here (Turkey), you're not allowed to call yourself by your maiden name if you are married, so I also have two separate identities. It's fine as long as I remember which one I am at any one time. I was explaining to a local friend that in the UK, you get to choose what your name is - she was most confused!

That's bound to be a real pain in the rear, given that Easyjet hummed & hahed over letting me on a flight when provided with a passport stating my name as Nicholas which I had booked and paid for with my CC which is Nick.

(Further complicated by the fact that my PP is the only item on which I'm called in the long form, blame on overly officious Dr. who thought he was being posh when providing a reference)

What do you mean you faked a Utility Bill?

Nice and simple = easily copied/faked so that anyone with criminal intent can make up a version and do what they like?

Somehow I've managed 34 years without an ID card, and I've joined NO2ID so that I can spend the rest of my life doing exactly the same.

I had to prove my name and address for the electoral register recently, and I rung to see what would be accepted. I umed and ahed over the phone about the fact that anything with my name on was still in my maiden name, and all the other stuff was in Mr Pants' name.

In the end, I rung the electricity people and got my name on the bill specially and all, only to find out I had been put on the register anyway.

I'm quite radically opposed to the ID card proposal. It's so...... I dunno.... Foreign!

I also stand by my assertion (which appears, or did long ago on the No2ID board) that the entire scheme will stand or fall over Northern Ireland and how any such card is implemented here.

This was when we just moved to this country. I don't remember exactly where exactly it was needed, the utility bill, but it was urgent. Couldn't wait for a new bill to arrive. With faking I mean: scanned the original bill we received with the name spelled wrong, corrected the name and printed it, gave that to them. And in regards to changing your name on the bill, our water bill has had MrNeo's name spelled wrong since we moved to our current address over 6 years ago. We phone them every single time the bill arrives and are told the changes have been made. Guess what, it is still spelled wrong.

KN, Belgian ID cards were simpler 9 years ago when I lived there.

Zebra: when I meant nice and simple for the Belgian ID cards, it didn't equate to easily copied/faked. It was harder to fake a Belgian ID card then an Italian passport. And compared to faking an ID bill...

One of the utility companies, can't remember which one, refused to reissue a bill in joint names when Mrneffi moved in and another, again I've forgotten which, wouldn't change my name without my original marriage certificate. Slight overkill for a utility company, I'd have thought.

I didn't know that. Any female, married Belgian family members I know of go by Firstname Marriedname-Maiden name. But then that's me just talking about unofficial correspondence it could of course be different for official docs.

My late gran used to say how great she thought the Belgian ID card system was. But given she left Belgium in 1946 it could have changed quite a lot since then. ?

I too am completely opposed to ID cards. And my understanding of the utility bill thing is that it is for proof of residence, rather than proof of identity - for that you do generally need a passport/driving licence. Also given that if ID cards were to be brought in here, you'd need to pay for them anyway, so where's the difference between having to pay for one of those and just getting a passport [shrug]

Well, exactly how hard is an Italian passport to fake? ?

Seriously, any piece of paper or card an official office can make, someone can fake.

A utility bill in this country is really proof of residency, rather than ID - for example, Royal Mail might ask to see that or a bank statement for handing over a parcel. Because they deliver to an address rather than a person.

regarding the Italian passports. I'm certain it's no longer the case now, but I remember mid 90s, my dad had a freelance job in the travel industry. I remember that at immigration control the Italian passports were always checked more severly as they were supposedly easy to fake.

But you're right any card, paper or plastic can be forged. Some more easily then others.

However, I'm aways amazed at how little people sometimes need to see regarding ID. For example: MrNeo has a part job at community centre. When they sign up new members, they take their pictures, this gets printed on a piece of card with their name on it and a bar code, and it gets laminated. MrNeo knows of several people (including illegal immigrants) who have used this card to open bank accounts and banks have accepted this card as their prove of ID. It's just a piece of laminated paper which can have any name and picture on it, no skill or effort involved. At least official ID cards are somewhat harder to fake and you'd need specialist equipment for them.

can you explain then why last year you spat the dummy when a potential employer asked for this, and you refused give it whilst saying that you felt you shouldnt have to?

? at Nick getting out his big green folder 'things wot hitchers have said 2007/2008'

L
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Fuck off ? i just have a good memory ?

Because that wouldn't be the account they were paying my wages into maybe?

Getting proof of address is getting harder with online everything. I bank online - I can print statements but they don't have my address on. Gas and electric is all done online - they do put name and address on but don't know how acceptable my own printed copy would be. Phone/broadband is just about to go online and is in MrK's name anyway. My name is on council tax and water rates but they are yearly and, when I've been asked for proof of address, they want things within 3 months. In the last few years I've wanted to hire a car, give notice to get married and be CRB checked and I've only just scrapped together the ID I need for these even though I have a passport and a driving licence.

I remember it too ?

(not really, I have just flicked up the relevant index card, well actually for ONE there are now several stapled together, this particular incident is boxed in with purple pen)

L
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