wearing leggings as bottoms....

I hate tights K! I bought some thick cotton tights from Debenhams and they are so comfy, they're basically stretchy leggings with feet. I can't bear normal tights though. At my high school we weren't allowed to wear trousers so in the winter I would have my school skirt (rolled up of course) and bare legs.

Uggh I HATE this! Utterly Vile!

I'm with Pompey on this one you need to dress to suit your weight and they are a billion times worse if they are fat, I don't want to see anyone's gunt out on full display, particularly at work!

Fat people can wear what they want and if you don't like it then it's your responsibility to look away. They don't 'need' to dress a certain way to please you, and its likely they never will, so you should probably get used to just looking away now.

I would never wear anything that shows my spare tyre (including a short top with leggings) as I hate it, but that's just about me, not what anyone else thinks. To paraphrase Ms Trainor, if that's not what you're into, then go ahead and move along.

The irony of all this is that I completely agree with the premise of this thread. It's inappropriate to go out with your underwear visible. But this co-opting it to preach body shaming (sorry Mini) makes me sick.

As ever InkedDoll making a mountain out of a molehill.

I wear leggings for comfort and do also wear them out with long tops so potentially I am guilty or putting you all off your dinner. Oops.

What should I do in this situation on an escalator when not looking the way I am travelling is likely to cause injury to myself and others?

Perhaps, but i believe in getting at these things from the grass roots. I will always stand up against body negativity regardless of the situation. I'm not sure what mountain you think I should wait to encounter before I start making my voice heard?

I was going to say, at risk of being shot down, pretty much this. Leggings as trousers look awful on anyone, but worse if that person is very large. but that's my problem isn't it? Because of my perception of fat people, media portrayal, blah blah blah. Not because being overweight causes all sorts of health issues or anything.

Here is what you should do:

1. Concentrate on your own business and not other people's clothing choices.

2. Don't take photos of strange women's backsides or spend time googling for such photos (I don't know which this is).

3. As soon as you reach the end of the escalator, go home, sit down and consider what has caused you to be so judgemental and fat-phobic. Perhaps think about what happened to make you think you can treat a stranger, who is trying to do their best in this world just like all of us, so harshly.

4. Consider that 'looking away' has a metaphorical meaning in the sense of getting on with your own life and not spending so much time thinking about other people's, as well as a literal one.

So you object to strange fat people wearing leggings purely cos you care about their health? Come now. That's rubbish and you know it. If you are genuinely worried for the health of someone close to you, maybe their clothing choices are not the best place to start tackling that.

I object to all people wearing leggings as trousers.

Is Sunday a bit boring for you? Is that why you want to argue with people on t'interweb?

Funks and I are clearly going to hell (it's warm down there though dude).

I honestly don't enjoy arguing at all. I hate it. I feel so strongly that fat people deserve better than they get in life in general, and I can't not stand up for that, but at the same time I have no personal beef with anyone here and I really don't want to start any. I think I'm probably done in this thread; better to stop for my own sanity than keep trying to 'win' or have the last word.

Ive been trying to articulate my thoughts on this today (I was running so diddnt have much else to think about)

How else is it OK to describe someone than by thier appearance? What phrases are OK. We have established that to suggest someone is overweight is not OK as a descriptor, but is it OK to say that they are tall? Or that they have red hair? Im frequently described as short- should I be furious about this? (it used to be skinny but alas the 30's have crept up on me and punished me for the previous 15 years of abuse I have ut on ym poor body)

Can we not say that tall people shouldn't wear trousers that are too short? Or that those with ginger hair shouldn't wear ink lipstick etc?

I suppose my main point in all of this is are people honestly saying they don't walk down the street and look at people and think- blimey, that doesn't suit her? I wouldn't wear those shorts if I was that size? I would never leave the house looking like that?

We ALL look at peoples appearances and make judgement, be that on their weight, social standing, height or any other bloody thing - Pompey seems to have made the catastrophic error of mentioning that this colleague is fat and hey because of Gok Wan we arent supposed to indicate anyone is fat anymore, we are all curvy and voluptuous so she falls foul of the fat shaming cheerleaders.

I'm sorry but anyone who says that they never ass comment on what others look like isnt being honest with themselves IMO.

We'll said Mini!! When we describe someone to others we use words that will make the description accurate. Imagine describing one friend to another without using any terms that could possibly be considered derisory! It is not the word itself that is rude or derogatory, but the intent behind it. Describing someone as "black" for instance is only racist if said with cruel intent. Describing someone as chubby is not the same as calling them a "fat, ugly bi**h"

I am short and fat, not particularly beautiful, with arthritic knees and I wear glasses when I don't fancy putting my lenses in. I defy anyone to describe me in a way that doesn't use those words! As long as it isn't done in a way that is meant to cause me pain, I will not be offended!!

going back to the original post regarding leggings, overweight people in leggings that are too small do not look good and that's that ?

Amen, Mini.

Well articulated Mini.

Unless you believe that both men and women should wear burkhas at all times, we live in a society where we are judged by our appearance. I don't get my cleavage out or wear miniskirts at work because it's not appropriate. As mentioned earlier, I don't get my belly out in crop tops because it doesn't look attractive in the society that we live in.

Yes, morbidly obese people have the right to wear whatever they want. I don't have the right to tell them what they should or shouldn't wear. But I am allowed to have feelings and opinions about it.

Very well put Mini!

It's true, we live in a society where people are judged by their appearance and whether you say it out loud or not you make assumptions etc based on what people look like, talk like, walk like. It's a fact of life.

I've seen both spectrums, skinny comments and fat comments due to either my weight or my loved ones weights and can honestly say that I can't see why this convo has been blown up to be rude & why something been made out of nothing. IMO it's made a bigger deal out of people's size than any comment could.

I promise I am done with arguing in this thread but I had to come back to say: this is an excellent and most appropriate typo.

I wasn't going to get involved in this but then you read something that really makes you go wtf? I genuinely don't understand this statement. There are lots of people who are born with a rough deal in life. Disabilities, poverty, illnesses. These deserve better in life than they get in general. Do I put being fat in that same category? Not at all. Yes some people are fat through medical reasons or food addictions but statistically these are rare. Most people are fat because they have access to more food than they need and will expend in a day. It's a choice and a result of the excesses of our society. Am I heavier than I would like to be - yes. But it's my fault and no-one else's and completely within my control. Does this mean I have a rough deal in life. No. Having access to too much food is a privelige we fail to acknowledge and something many do not have.

As is the choice of whether to go out with my pants on show. I choose not to. Some people choose to. And like mini says we are all judging whether we admit to it or not.

Sorry guys I didn't realise this would become such a controversial topic & it wasn't meant to start a debate on if it is OK to comment on the size/weight of others.

I was genuinely interested to know ( perhaps I didn't articulate it very well) if anyone would approach a stranger & tell them if they were experiencing a wardrobe malfunction e.g see through leggings.

I once bought a new top but forgot to take the label off. Whilst in a restuarant a fellow diner came over to tell me it was hanging out & whilst I was extremely embarrassed I was quite grateful too.

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. Walked in to the office with a tag on my dress, no one in my team was in but luckily someone from another team came over and told me.... I was so embarrassed but it could have been much worse if I'd been to meet a client instead of going in to the office!

You've reminded me.. .. A few years ago I actually interviewed a customer with my skirt tucked into my knickers.I had to leave the room at one point & they were kind enough to tell me. I was probably wearing manky pants too. I was mortified!!!!

This type of thing happens to me a lot.

I have one particular skirt which seems to be in love with my knickers. In one week, on two separate occasions, I had people come up to me to tell me it was tucked in! V embarrassed. especially as both times it was at a train station so I'd clearly been flashing to the world!

Not sure if I'd tell a stranger I could see their pants through their leggings. I remember walking to work across Westminster Bridge once and a jogger went past whose running leggings obviously weren't as opaque as the ones the ladies on here describe - I could see her lacy thong. So could all the businessmen/civil servants walking along near me, several of whom made some inappropriate comments. I wanted to tell her but there was no way I could have caught up!

^^This.

I get the whole fat-shaming/thin-shaming thing. I used to have an eating disorder (technically, still do - I firmly believe it's like being an alcoholic. I'm a healthy weight now, but I'm only ever one diet day away from the spiral), so believe me when I say I do not underestimate the impact a cruel comment can have on someone's feelings. But I do have a genuine question:

We don't all find the same things attractive. Whilst I completely disagree with bullying, and I agree that there is a way to say things, is there actually a way in which we are allowed to express that we don't find something attractive anymore? Or have we become so obsessed with our own images and this idea that we can't be anything less than perfect that we can't actually say "To me, that does not look good"? Like children, who can no longer have their work marked in red ink because it might damage their self-esteem? Are we so fragile?

(That question isn't limited to fat people, btw. I've seen size 8 girls in size 4 leggings that show cameltoe. That does not look good. I also have a friend who is a size 16 who squeezes herself (still) into her size 10s. That does not look good. My friend is overweight. It is a fact. Am I supposed to pretend that she's not? That would be condescending and patronising. As a friend, surely I owe her better than that. I would hope that she would offer me the same honesty and respect. I also would hope that any adult I meet is able to distinguish between a statement of fact and abuse).

(Out of interest, I personally believe that although we say we dress for ourselves, this is a fallacy we tell ourselves. We aren't the ones who have to look at ourselves all day, so why would we dress for what we think looks good if those around us tell us it doesn't? I personally believe that how good we look is completely in the gift of those who perceive us. That actually was a major turning point for me in overcoming my eating disorder).

Back to the original topic, I wear thick leggings with a tunic top or dress in the winter. If my leggings are slightly see-through, I put black tights on underneath. I do also wear running leggings with a short top to run or to the gym, but I always buy a size up from my normal dress size and I would never wear see-through leggings or leggings with a top that doesn't cover my ass in a non-workout situation. I also always make sure I have plain underwear a similar colour to the leggings on underneath, so if by chance my top rides up, I'm still not going to flash.

Wow, this was an interesting read this morning!

I don't wear leggings as I feel too fat for them. When I was slimmer I wore them occasionally and only ever with a long jumper.

I actually came across someone in Asda a few weeks ago wearing really thin Batman leggings with her pink spotty knickers showing - bloody awful!

I love leggins, but only wear them with something that covers my bum.

Nude leggins should be banned. They are truly horrendous no matter what size the wearer is.

No CV, it's absolutely not your fault. It's mainly mine for being so confrontational about this stuff.

There have been some good points made and some I don't agree with. I agree that we judge and describe people on their physical features and sometimes that's okay. I also agree that if people want to describe themselves as fat or any other word that can sometimes be hurtful, that's fine. I do that all the time. But I believe in respecting people's autonomy and choice.

I support kindness. If you think it's okay to use potentially derogatory words to describe people's bodies, or use covertly taken photos of them to mock some aspect of their appearance, then we will never agree. That makes me sad, but such is life.

I also maintain that fat people get a raw deal sometimes, yes not on the same level as racism (which I don't think I've ever experienced) or disablism (which I have), but they are still discriminated against. Being fat may be of their own doing on some levels (remember unless you are very close to the person, you probably don't know the full story), but that doesn't mean they deserve to be mocked because of their size. Using "fat" in a matter of fact way (even though to many people this is still a loaded word) is not the same thing. Last week coming home at 10.30pm after a long, exhausting day at the hospital I was followed down the street by a drunk man shouting "you big, fat b.tch" at me. I'm a size 16/18 - imagine the treatment someone a size 28/30 receives from society.

This thread made me really upset cos I felt I didn't articulate myself well. Despite maintaining a political stance on fat acceptance (which I understand is controversial), it quickly becomes personal for me and that's where I fall down on arguing successfully. That bothers me.

I will repeat: I just support kindness. I have absolutely no desire to make enemies or ostracize myself. I don't see why people don't want to try to be kind. That's all it is.

I completely agree with your standpoint ID. Everyone goes through their own personal battles and being overweight is often a symptom of those. Would those so quick to judge overweight people be as quick to judge someone with depression? No the person suffering from depression would get a lot more sympathy, I would bet money on it. When the irony is for many people, over eating is a symptom of an underlying emotional need, so what right have you to make a judgement about that. If you don't like what they are wearing then look somewhere else .it is none of your business. A bit more kindness and empathy would make life better for a lot of people.

I think this is a totally simplistic view of what it is to be overweight. If it was that simple then we'd all be thin. There are so many factors that are involved and everyone's cicumstances are different, all you are doing is judging everyone as being greedy. What about the emotional and psychological factors behind people's weight? Would you tell someone who's anorexic to just eat more?

Actually, I one of my friends from school had anorexia. she said she found it hard that people were telling her she needed to eat more, but it helped her to realise that she had a problem that she needed to address. It took her a while to accept it though.

Just because someone may or may not have an emotional issue does not mean they should not be told about the consequences of their behaviour i.e. that their emotional problem is causing them to over eat or not eat enough.

You are missing the point completely. It is actually very simple from a biological viewpoint - people are fat because they eat/drink too many calories. People are too thin because they don't eat enough. WHY they eat too many/too few calories may indeed have many many different factors. I didn't say the WHY was simple but the HOW is. The issues themselves are not what makes people fat - it is the response to them. Another person can have exactly the same issues as a fat person but their response may not be to eat - it may be to have sex with random strangers. According to inked doll fat people deserve better in life. Does that mean the fat person deserves better in life than the other simply because their response was to eat? Why do they deserve better when all the underlying issues are the same?

I have travelled many places in the world where people struggle to find enough food on a daily basis. Are we saying they do not have any psychological or emotional issues? Of course they do - the main difference as to why you do not see fat people in these countries isn't that they don't have any issues but that their response to those issues cannot be to eat more as they are not in the lucky position to do so. If there was a world war here and we were all on severe food rations then actually yes most of us would be thin. Would all our issues have been miraculously cured? No - the only thing that would have changed would be access to food, or lack of it.

So I stand by what I said that fat people do not 'deserve better' in life purely because they are fat. People who have been handed a rough deal in life deserve better regardless of what weight they are. Being fat does not automatically spring board you into that category.

I don't have time for a proper reply but I read what Inked Doll said as, fat people deserve to be treated better, that doesn't mean they deserve a better life than someone starving in Africa for example, it just means they shouldn't have to face people shouting and swearing at them in the street.

Thankyou BB, that's exactly it. People deserve to be treated equally (in a social sense) regardless of their size, not better or worse because of it. When you get into issues like famine in developing nations it gets very complicated and a lot of other factors come into play. But in the Western world, where I think all of us live and are seeing, interacting with and looking at the clothing choices of others, we can strive for that sort of equality.