Children on public transport

I certainly agree with that, but I think it goes both ways (or it should do).

excellent point. only i think pensioner have 'paid' for it by paying additional fares in the past. amongst other things.

oh, and RA, have i missed your point? again? sorry i'm too fick to debate with you. again. anyway, i really can't be arsed to argue tonight as i'm tired and have a cold and feel a bit shyte.

i'm off to bed and you go and [shrug] all you like

I really wasn't getting at you: I just thought we'd crossed wires.

You wound me up once, <childish> when I was actually right and even hazel said so ?<childish> but that's it, end of story as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not a grudges person, sorry if you are.

Have a nice sleep and I hope you feel better soon (genuine).

Kierenthecommunity - I mostly agree with your points here but think you're being a bit unfair to RA. It's a valid point re the cut off, where does it occur? Should a teenage boy be expected to give up his seat for an adult female but not to an adult male etc.

The cheaper fares will be met by the parents anyway not the teenager so why are they (the teenager) less worthy of a seat than an able body adult?

As for equality in the workplace, as a 19 year old joining a work place, I was given the exact same terms, conditions and respect as everyone else. If anything I was given a little more slack than others that had been in my workplace for years in a kind of 'let the rookie learn the ropes' and I did.

I was always taught to give my seat to a older person, a pregnant woman or a disabled person growing up and I do.

I live in London and I have to say anyone else can fight for a seat themselves.

I don't understand why a young child cant sit on an adults lap if the tube is packed.

To me a teenage/young adult no matter what they have paid for as a ticket is entitled to a seat just as much as I am

unless there is the above mentioned wanting a seat.

I'm another who was taught to give up my seat. I'm quite happy to give up my seat to anyone - young or old. I don't care as long as I get to where I'm going.

One of my main issues is alot of parents seem to have a my child can do what they like attitude. It might be just in Dudley but alot of parents don't stop their children from pushing in front of the queue to get on. And most times the parent is telling the child to get on ignoring the people who have been waiting there ages. And then those with toddlers in prams who will quite happily use the pull down seat areas for their pushchairs but then get the child out and use up a seat for them too. Why do they think they have the right to use up 2 spaces for 1 child? Oh and then theres the ones who push through with 10+ bags hanging off the pushchair and glare at you if you dare get in the way. I wouldn't dare take that much shopping on the bus as I know it would inconvinience others. And 1 last moan whilst I'm at it - why have pushchairs/prams got so big? When i started work 8 years ago 4 would have quite happily fitted into the pram area on the bus - now 2 struggle. Surely if you know you're going to use public transport you get something compact and easy to carry if you need to collapse it for any reason and yet most on the bus seem to have ones that resemble a small tank.

rant over - I feel much better now.

I think most people are taught to give up seats for those who need them aren't they? I know I was and my friends were. We were neither wayward teens, nor particularly well behaved ones either and I certainly remember barging past adults to get to seats on the bus into town on a Saturday afternoon or during the school holidays. If you were "just" a grown up, you were fair game. Yes, you respect your elders but (stating the obvious) haven't well all been teenagers/kids at some point? Its not that they are particularly badly behaved or any worse than we were, I think a lot of the time, we just forget that we had the same feelings they did. We felt like we were grown up and knew it all and that adults were just stupid and annoying and their sole purpose in life was to get on our backs and make our lives miserable. I certainly remember making fun of the serious looking grown ups on the bus, having to go into work while we had the whole day ahead of us to do what we wanted and commenting that we'd never be that serious or that miserable. Fast forward 10-15 years and we're the serious looking grown ups on the bus, having to go into work while the pesky kids get more holidays than soft dinners and don't know they're born ?

If the kids on the bus in the OP had paid their fare and there were no "needy" people requiring seats, then I don't see the problem. If they were really causing a nuisance the driver can ask them to get off, but if they were just having a bit of a laugh and generally being kids, I think the general public as a whole (me included) should just let them have a bit of fun while they can. They grow up too fast anyway and a bit of high jinks on the bus into town in the school holidays is hardly going to turn them into juvenile delinquents is it? Whilst it is irritating listening to their yoof speak and their general noisiness, there's not really much you can do about it, so best not to get wound up by it.

I have a teenage son and stepson and have to say that when travelling in my company I make sure they're polite/well behaved but I don't for one minute think they're little angels all the time and nor sould they be expected to be. So long as they don't cross that invisible line, they're ok by me.

Just to add, my 13 year old recently got a free bus ride home after the bus driver was impressed with him helping a lady who was laden down with bags onto the bus. Made me feel quite chuffed - see, they're not ALL bad ?

I was always taught to give up my seat to those in need - pregnant women, people with young children, people with motility issues and the elderly. We lived in such a little place though that I can never honestly remember being in a situation where I was required to give my seat up for an able-bodied adult.

Now my child is still in the stage of being in her pushchair, but when she is past that stage she will be on my knee if the public transport we are on becomes too busy.

I have to say what winds me up more are people who sit in the buggy space at the front of the bus and huff and puff when you get on and they have to move two seats further down.

Zooropa - we chose the pram that was most supportive, best for our babies health and development and our needs. So yes it takes up half of one pram space on the bus but to be honest that's what they're there for. The bus came every 10 mins, I have had to wait for the next one as the pram place was full so I'm sure other people can. And no I couldn't collapse a pram, however small and manage with my daughter because I have certain health problems which mean I simply couldn't physically do it

Its threads like this that make me overly paranoid about my kids. i always ask the kids to move if we are on trains/tube etc, when we were in london i taught them to stand unless there were lots of seats. we noticed quite often that because caitlin is only small (4) people were giving up their seats for her, which actually embarrassed me more. i get overly stressed when we are eating in a restaurant worrying that they are being to noisy (mostly when they are not). when we were in london in november people actively ignored my 78 year old nan on the tube, several times my sister asked grown ups if they would move so she could sit and several times teenagers moved without being asked.

Zooropa, how very dare mothers with buggies do their shopping then try to get home on the bus, how rude of them ?

Fwiw, my son has always been taught to get up for people who need a seat more than him and is very good at offering it up, he also used to sit on my lap up until the age of 10ish probably. At the age he is now I wouldn't make him get up for an able bodied adult.

Re: toddlers, it is much much safer for them to be sat down than stood up on public transport.

Reminds me of the Aesop's fable about the donkey, the young child and elderly adult! It's a bit of a no-win situation and you can't please everyone all the time, especially now that it's not always so easy to tell if someone is 'old' or not. (Eg people of 60 and over are still active in the labour market, some 80 year olds I know look like 55 year olds etc. So much easler to tell when I was little!! The same as the police officer looking younger as you get older scenario!)

We used public transport a lot as children (no car). We always used to sit on mum's knee and were taught to give up our seats to those more in need than us when we reached 7 or so. This was always because of it being the 'right' thing to do because of the half-fare thing. We would also offer our seats to an adult if the bus was full, but often as not they refused. At 7 or so and above you are also a bit more in control of your balance and less likely to skittle about when the bus takes a corner too fast.

Now with children of my own, when I've been on the tube, on a train or on a bus, they always sit on my knee if space is crowded. If there's only one seat, then I'll put the most mobile child on there to keep them occupied and stand myself, holding on to the other child. Sometimes this is the best position to be in as it's a headstart on containing child's escape efforts.

When you're a child/young adult, I think this conundrum is about developing social skills and thinking about the needs of others above your own. FWIW I've seen as many teenagers offer their seats to others as those who haven't. I also remember being on buses as a teenager and taking up a whole seat, talking really loudly etc. I had to learn that actually this was pretty annoying to other passengers and also a bit anti-social. I'm getting payback now, oh yes!

While I certainly don't expect another adult or young person to offer me their seat, I would offer mine to another parent with a child under the age of 7 or so/pregnant woman/older person/someone with mobility issues etc.

FWIW, I have more of a problem with able bodied adults not offering their seats to obviously pregnant woman or people struggling and then hiding behind their book/paper pretending they haven't seen them. I want to hurt the the 40ish year old man who pushed past me at 8 months pregnant in order to secure his wife a seat, then pretended he couldn't see me staring at him. Rude cunt.

Imo, that's much worse and my son would never do it.

Genuine question for Hole and others: when upduffed, why didn't you take advantage of the killer hormones and ask people to give up their seat for you? I would.

Genuine question for Hole and others: when upduffed, why didn't you take advantage of the killer hormones and ask people to give up their seat for you? I would.

I don't see why kids can't give up their seats- they have tonnes more energy (in general) than someone like me!

Here in Melbourne the transport rules say children with concession fares are expected to give up their seats as a condition of receiving concession fares (which they can do until 17/finish school).

To me it is the whole lack of courtesy rather than kids giving up their seat for adults. I had a cast on my foot- people tried to pretend they could not see me...well until I 'stumbled" onto them with my 10lb cast. Why not be courteous and hold doors open for people (any) give up your seat to people less able to stand, drive courteously etc?

The pram/pushchair I have is a damn sight smaller than the Silver Cross pram my mother had. And it's all very well saying to use something small and collasible but they don't give as much support for the child's back and neck. Am I willing to risk my child's development because it pisses you off that I'm on the bus? No.

I don't disagree that people should consider others on the bus. My issue in particular is this assertion that "It wasn't like that in my day". Bollocks. I bet there were plenty of pushy, rude children and teens in the 70s and 80s just as there are now.

People were always pretty considerate to me but someone on BT tried this (White Rabbit maybe?) and they told her that she chose to get pregnant so essentially she should suck it up.

Normally I did, obviously mostly people realised and couldn't get up quick enough, other times I was ignored or was told "no, sorry" . The latter are probably the same sort of people who love to moan about 'kids today'.

The day the man shoved past me, I was having a spectacularly bad day and struggling to hold it together, I would have burst into tears and become a snotty mess if I'd said anything to him. On a normal day he'd have got a mouthful of abuse ?

I was always made to give my seat up to an adult as a child and I probably will make R when he's older too but I agree with R-A, I'm not sure why say a teenager is less worthy of a seat than say an apparently healthy 40 year old man, and if the older man needs the seat for hidden disabilty, for example, I think most teenagers would happily stand if asked.

I will happily stand for anyone who clearly needs the seat more than me, I don't limit it by age/gender/disability/pregnancy...

I think I must have been lucky but I had lots of seat offers on the Tube when pregnant and even more when I carried R in his sling - I don't think I ever had to stand when with him.

I hated buggy wars on the bus/Tube and never used one. Much easier to sling on public transport than hope you'll get your buggy on the next bus (or not get kicked off because a wheelchair users needs the space).

I don't mind parents with shopping. It's when they have 15 bags hanging off including 1 with the biggest toy they could find, I'm trying to press myself to the side of the aisle and suck everything in and hardly breath so they can get past and then they glare at me becuase they have ran over my foot.

I had to give up my seat to anyone older than my mum, she was in her forties by the time I was old enough to stand and before then I would have sat on her knee. I wouldn't have got the option to not sit on her knee if I wasn't old enough to stand. ?

I sometimes get the bus and I find the people most likely to offer their seats to me (I use two crutches) are much older men. I don't think I've ever been offered a seat by a teenager, although they tend to be much further back on the bus. I quietly seethed a few weeks ago when a lady had her dog on the seat next to her and watched people (not me) stand.

If an very elderly/infirm person is having to stand, I will sometimes offer my seat although that in itself tends to make someone else get up as they seem to see me offering and realise the probably should have offered first.

ETA, in general people around here are pretty good at offering seats. Unless the bus is really quiet, most younger men will stand near the luggage big and younger women tend to go near the back.

If I was coming home from work I would only give up my seat once in a blue moon, if it was someone who looked like they really needed it. I was knackered after being on my feet since 6.30am. Whether that be an older person who looked like they were struggling, a pregnant lady, a woman with a wriggly toddler.....

TBH-I am with RA in challenging the "blanket" assertion that teens/young people should defer to non elderly adults and automatically offer their seat as a mark of "respect". As a young girl growing up in the 70's, I was taught to offer my seat to pregnant women, the elderly, disabled and toddlers (who were unable to sit on mums knee).

I brought my own sons up the same. And to do so without prompting. I would not have expected them to jump up for every adult-just because they were an adult-just as I wouldn't! If my sons secured (not barged to get them) seats and some 30 something able bodied, non pregnant adult didn't, c'est la vie. My sons were no less "worthy" of those seats imo.

They are 21 now, and insofar as I am aware would still offer a seat without hesitation to a pregnant, elderly, disabled/injured person and/or young children.

Flip me Mogic. I would have told her to move the dog before I sat on it. Same with people and bags - I'll happily move their bag for them if they're not able.

Last year sometime I woman (40s) whinged for about 10 minutes that no one was getting up to let her sit down. Firstly I'm not sure why she needed a seat more than anyone else and secondly she was with a couple of 9 year old boys who were climbing over a seat each. Surely if her need was that great she could have made one of them stand. I was very rude to her (and got told off on here about it).

Grrrr, bags and briefcases reserving seats really pees me off - in fact, if I'm in a bad mood, I'll deliberately target those seats as it annoys me so much and make them suffer by squeezing my fat arse onto the seat next to them

I was brought up to give up your seat for someone more in need of it than you, and still do. I'm also happy to move to allow others to sit together - particularly children/teenagers as it's what I would have liked if I was that age

Blimey, G would have absolutely sat on my lap at that age if I really needed to sit down. Silly cow.

Tell me what you said to her ?

I don't give up my seat because said person is pregnant/disabled/elderly, I give it up if I think they need the seat - ie to someone less able than me regardless of age, etc. I'm sure when my brother and I were little on the rare occaisions we went on public transport we were made to sit on our parents laps if the trains were busy, or to share a seat between us so other people could sit down. Having said that, I've collapsed on the tube before now and not one single person offered me a seat, not even the two people who's feet I'd landed on when I collapsed and it took the woman beside me asking people to move to get me a seat.

You remember .. I told her she'd burn more calories standing up. ? Was mortified the minute the words had left my mouth.

Oh yes ?

?

My experience of the tube has always been positive and I have almost always been offered a seat. I don't always take it as if I'm only going a few stops and have somewhere to lean, I'm ok. It's usually younger men who offer and if I do take their seat, I catch their attention before I get up again to offer them their seat back, if they are still there.

Chook, if I was having to stand I would have said something to her. She looked bloody scary though and I'm a wuss. ?

I have just logged on and haven't read the rest of the thread but I totally disagree with your on this. I think if all parents taught their children to respect elders, there may be less issues surrounding "respect" amongst teenagers. Gang members are obsessed with being respected; maybe if they learnt it at home they wouldn't have such an obsession with it amongst their peers.

I'm not saying teenagers shouldn't be respected. I agree that everyone should be respected, regardless of age, but I do think the world would be a nicer place if children/teenagers were respectful of their elders.

I have two boys, both toddlers at the moment granted, but they will be raised to respect their elders, just like I was.

I wholeheartedly agree with what Ostrich is saying. MissSun will sit on my lap if someone is standing. Simple as that.