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janeyh

do animals think?

janeyh, 26 June, 2009 at 20:37 Posted on Off Topic Posts 0 10

Just a random pondering because we have a seagull chick that had fallen off our roof the other day - our house is a bit odd roof wise and has lots of different sections - it looks like it came off one of the high bits - but we put it back on a low bit at the side - the mother could see it and was swooping around to protect it but couldnt land very well

it then did another flop off that roof and we put it on another bit at the back which the mum can get to and is feeding and sitting with it

i just thought she must be really confused about how it has travelled about given that it cant fly

mr j says i am a freak and of course she doesnt think - probably true - but said that the dog doesnt think either - i cant believe that

do no animals have a bit of a ponder?

10 replies

Latest activity by R-A, 27 June, 2009 at 09:43
  • janeyh
    janeyh ·
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    Oh dear - this was obviously very random indeed ?

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  • Dooby
    Beginner
    Dooby ·
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    I think they must think to a certain extent. By way of example our cat eats whiskas cat biscuits, however, there is one particular shape/flavour of the biscuits that he doesn't like. So he sits in front of his food bowl and flicks out with his paw one by one each biscuit that he does like and eats them off the floor. This leaves us with a pile of the biscuits he doesn't like in his bowl.

    To do this he must remember that he doesn't like a certain biscuit and then sets about separating all his other ones from that sort of biscuit. To me that involves a certain level of thought.

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  • Maxi
    Beginner February 2008
    Maxi ·
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    We play 'three cups' with our dog. He always picks the one the biscuit is under no matter how intricate my hand movements ?

    Seagulls though? Who knows? If they had a thought process and logic why oh why do they nest on my work's slopping roof and allow their babies to fall off said roof. The babies always seem to survive though - what do they do, float down like a parachute?

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  • maxiemax
    maxiemax ·
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    I'm sure my dog thinks - if I am stood beside the bit of worktop where his box of biscuits are he immediately sits down and stares at me very hard and it just looks as if he is thinking 'ffs woman, just give me a biscuit wont you?' ?

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  • H
    Hickory ·
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    I'm sure my dog thinks too. No idea what she thinks, mind you. I have a very bad habit of watching Extreme Makeover: Home Edition and crying my eyes out at the end. When she hears me crying, she'll rush into the living room and perch on my feet, head cocked, watching me. Some might think that she senses I'm upset and is comforting me but I'm pretty sure she's just trying to work out what that infernal noise is...

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  • C
    Beginner February 2006
    Carrot ·
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    Animals dream don't they so they must be able to think too. I often wonder what my cats are dreaming of when they're twitching in their sleep- probably tuna or chasing birds.

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  • badkitti*
    Beginner October 2007
    badkitti* ·
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    Hmmm, while we can't anthropomorphise animals and therefore do that pet owner thing where we assume our cats and dogs etc understand us, surely anuimals do think? They must be able to reason somehwat to work out how to do stuff that doesn't come by instinct. There are debatable experiments with reading chimpanzees and dolphins etc. Dolphins can recognise themselves in mirrors, and that's hardly instict!

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  • B
    Beginner February 2008
    Boop ·
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    ?

    Yes, they think, although I don't know enough about seaguls to confidently answer whether or not the mum was wondering how the chick got there ?.

    All animals learn by trial and error - what is rewarding (either just by doing it, or resulting in something rewarding) is likely to continue / increase and what isn't rewarding fades. If you train a dog and tap into its natural problem solving abilities (like with clicker training) then you not only get a dog that learns faster and enjoys learning, but one whose 'thinking' skills are finely tuned and who can generalise cues much faster than a dog who's pulled or prodded into position.

    If I'm shaping (basically marking and rewarding approximations towards the final behaviour I want) Riley then the breaks between the 1 minute shaping sessions are just as valuable because its that time that she uses (consiously or not we don't know) to process the information she's just recieved. Invariably the right behaviour is stronger after a break.

    So, last night I started teaching her to walk round two cones in a figure of 8 - she's worked it out completely from my clicks and rewards, I haven't lured, pointed, guided in any way other than by clicking for the good stuff. Picking it up again this mornng she's much better and more confident that she's right this morning after a good night's sleep on the problem.

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  • S
    Beginner September 2007
    Sparklywug ·
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    I am fairly certain my cats think - Blixa definately decides when he is bored of me sleeping and make a proper concerted effort to wake me up, even if he has already been fed!

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  • WifeyLind
    Beginner April 2006
    WifeyLind ·
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    Animals think for sure. Years ago, we stayed at a house with a friend whilst his parents were away. They had three very big labs and they were all very female oriented dogs, therefore meaning that they shifted their alliance to me (being the only woman in the house) and would follow me everywhere. To the extent that if I was sat on the sofa, there was rivalry between two of them as to who would sit closest to me, although the older dog always seemed to win this one. Then, one morning, the friend called them into the kitchen for some food so off went the younger lab and then the older lab, but the older one ran to get ahead of the younger lab. I was sat on the sofa at the time and I just sat there as I watched the younger lab see the older lab run past, he stopped in his tracks and looked back at me, back towards the kitchen and back to me again. At that point, he obviously decided that he'd much prefer some one-to-one time with me, and did a running jump ontop of me on the sofa. So yes, he definitly had a thought process of which he'd prefer; food or cuddles and fuss with the nice lady.

    We also have a cat, which I've trained to sit for her treats. It only took me a week to train her to do this and she was 8 at the time. All I did was show her the treat, give her the command to sit which holding the treat out to her. At first her bum hitting the ground was more an instinct of "ok, looks like I'm going to be here a while before I get that treat", but pretty soon she started realising that as soon as her bum hit the ground she got it. She then started testing her theory by sitting for the first one and then standing for the second, but then I wouldn't give it to her until her bum was down. So yes, she does think and associate the shake of her treat box, with her sitting to receive her treat.

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  • R-A
    Beginner July 2008
    R-A ·
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    Yes, I'm sure they do (that's one of the reasons I don't eat them ?)

    But it must be on a scale: I don't think centipedes have the same capacity for thought as apes or dolphins. But I'm not aware of the evidence, that's just my impression.

    My gut instinct is that humans are probably the only animals capable of abstract thought, but logic and understanding cause/effect - definitely. Is that 'thinking' though? Dunno.

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