Do you wear a red poppy?

We always wear poppies in this house, as others have said as a mark of respect for those that have died or risked their lives in battle.

Every year we watch the service and every year it makes me cry. I always think that soon there won't be anyone living who fought in WW1 (I think there was only a couple last year still alive), and we have to pass on the respect to our children.

I also always think about the nation as a whole and what the inhabitants of the country went through. A lot of use are complaining about the current economic climate and cutting back on luxuries, when really we don't know we're born. If the nation went through a similar thing now I'm sorry to say I don't think we'd pull together in the same way. Imagine if we were all told now that we had to go back to rationing, black outs, 'dig for victory' and air raid shelters, not to mention 'careless talk costs lives', which would probably mean the end of online chatting (!). That's why I wear a poppy, they died and fought for their future generations.

I have to confess I haven't read the whole thread as Harriet is getting fidgetty as it is, so apologies if anyone has already said all this.

I don't think they died in poppy fields. I thought that the poppies grew in those fields after because they particularly liked the nourishment from the blood spilt. I always thought the poppy symbol was a bit gruesome.

Eh?

Lost me there, particularly the 'cake' comment.

That's almost word for word what my last post above yours says!

So those who say Armistice day is more important or valid than other charities BECAUSE 'without war we'd be speaking German' are commemerating 'the wrong thing on the wrong day'. The outcomes are not what Nov 11th is about.

I don't wear a poppy and haven't for many years. It's not something I really think about and I usually don't even remember about rememberance day.

I just asked my german collegue/friend about poppys and she didn't know about them. She even had to look up what they do in germany (mourning day apparently).

Indeed

I bumped into a colleague yesterday wearing a poppy, an RNLI badge, and not one, but two breast cancer awarenees pins. The different groups aren't mutually exclusive.

I respect your decision on this R-A, but can't help feeling that some of your comments have been a bit sneery.

agree with this

i am surprised you started this thread really - and that having done so you are becoming so aggressive towards people - it almost seems you intended to start an argument ....

Yes I always do - in fact when we flew out of Almeria on Friday morning we were surprised (happily so!) to see a gentleman selling poppies in the departure lounge.

SB is a member of the RNR and so is often involved in activities of this nature - he did the 100km walk in Ypres earlier this year. We had a big talk about it on the plane on the way home, very moving stuff.

You're right. However apart from finding the poppy symbol a bit gruesome - I find it rather a simple symbol of hope. The fact that they are red is so symbolic too - split blood, red flowers growing upwards from the ruins.....

Ahhhh.

I'm sorry that I can't keep up to speed with replying to everyone, I have a slow computer.

Fluffy, of course I am aware of conscription. I was talking about current armed forces, I should have made that clear, apologies.

I think that anyone that does a dangerous job for the greater good deserves our respect, and I don't think it's helpful to try and rank them, or demand special proviledges for certain groups as alluded to by Nick.

i did not suggest there is any kind of ranking system. simply that your post which suggested death in service of ones country versus death in the employment of the fire service was the same was wrong, and i maintain that.

no one has suggested it is compulsory to wear poppies either, or that one cause is more important th another which you have infered in a previous post.

Nobody is saying that - you're the only person who is! And who has mentioned the nonsense about speaking German?

We're remembering people here, not war, not outcomes etc. People - free people who fought and died/got injured/sacrificed themselves for us. People whose sacrifice needs remembering.

I was ignorant of a lot of this until I met my H (a politics & history graduate), and went to a Remembrance day parade. The people there show you why we should have respect and remember them. Seeing a man in his 80s with no legs and one arm, bravely saluting, wearing his medals and uniform with pride brought it all home to me. And that's just one example. The WW1 veterans, my God I cried.

Do you not value what these people did for us?

R-A, I'm not sure anyone is trying to dictate what statement you make or how you make it. Rather, I think people are saying either that they dislike the statement you're making and disagree with it (which is my position), or that your statement is unclear and confusing. You can wear what you like, and others will interpret it as seems right to them- a disadvantage of trying to make a complicated point about remembering those who died in war while condemning the wars themselves through the means of a paper flower.

Luckily I am able to, but those who work for the Police or the BBc are not allowed any symbols other than a poppy (as mentioned earlier on the thread).

I always try to wear a red poppy, this year I've not managed to be anywhere where they've been available, but I'm still looking for one.

Am I the only person here that's never seen a white poppy before?

I haven't WT.

I don't think I've ever seen one either.

MBK did.

I have seen the parades on the TV and taken part in many local versions as a child/teen as part of the Scouts. (The London one is not the only parade!)

ONE corrected me about civllians being there. However, and as someone has mentioned on this thread (about explaining the poppy to others) poppies are widely accepted to commemorate military service-people who have lost their lives in war. Whether that is what they are meant to do or not, this thread shows that this is what most people think of them of, and it is where the money goes.

OMG ?? I don't think I could go. I've actually avoided the parade on TV a bit, since I saw some men waiting to get the bus to London all dressed up when I was about 15. i cried so much I got sent home from my sunday job. I find the whole things incredibly emotional.

i always buya poppy- my parents taught me to do so and I still agree with their reasoning. I have to say I'm often not wearing it as I find them very hard to keep on. My Grandfather fought in Burma in WW2 and I generally do it with him in mind. My Dads family are Irish (southern Irish) and when they lived in the UK they wore them- in fact my Grandad tried to fight but had medical problems which excluded him from the draught. I've lived with a hell of a lot of Plastic paddies but never come accross the anti poppy view.

Also RA, what about the faulklands? totally unplanned ?

Also, can I just mention if anyone is in or visits London and has even a passing interest in war or history, go to the imperial war muesum. Its incredible.

Okay, but that's not what you said. You said you weren't allowed. Confusing.

I'd love for you to expand, Lou.

So far all I've said is that I was brought up a pacifist and tend to wear a white poppy, and that I think all people who put their lives on the line for our greater good should be given the same level of respect.

Is that so controversial?

Im glad Im not the only one never to have seen a white poppy, I thought something had completely passed me by for a moment.

The first donations for artificial poppies were given in Britain on 11th November 1921, inspired by John McCrae's 1915 poem 'In Flanders' Fields'.

Some of the bloodiest fighting of World War I took place in the Flanders and Picardy regions of Northern France. In the aftermath of the war’s total devastation the only thing which would grow on the land was the poppy. McCrae, a doctor serving there with the Canadian Armed Forces, wrote these verses about what he saw:

In Flanders’ fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place: and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders’ fields.

Moina Michael, an American War Secretary with the YMCA, was moved by McCrae’s work to write: And now the torch and Poppy red, wear in honour of our dead.

She bought red poppies and sold them to her friends to raise money for Servicemen in need. Her French colleague, Madame Guerin, proposed the making of artificial poppies and their sale to help ex-Servicemen and their dependants.

In Britain, Major George Howson, a young infantry officer, formed the Disabled Society, to help disabled ex-Servicemen and women from World War I. Howson suggested to the Legion that members of the Disabled Society could make poppies and the Poppy Factory was subsequently founded in 1922.

The original poppy was designed so that workers with a disability could easily assemble it and that principle remains today. More than 70% of Poppy Factory employees have a disability or chronic illness.

Ummm.... Yes.

And... Your point is?

Very eloquent and accurate.

I wasn't born then <embarassingly young icon>

Like others, I tend to buy lots of poppies each year as I can't resist the RBL members when I pass them, and I also lose lots. At my daughter's school they sell stickers with poppies on (done by the RBL) which I think is sensible for children, so she always goes to school with money for one.

I don't consider it pro-war at all.

We also buy a separate poppy each to wear on remembrance Sunday at church because you can bet the original ones are all battered by then.

...that one of the initial aims of the white poppy movement was to extend the thinking, rememberance and grief to include the civilian dead.

So why then borrow the 'militarist' trappings?

If not to denigrate the symbolism of the poppy or to promote one's own agenda using it as a vehicle.

Sometimes I buy a poppy, sometimes I don't. It depends if I see someone selling them. I don't go hunting around for someone to buy one from and I've never been to a rememberance service, aside from when I was at school.

I feel a little uncomfortable with it for reasons that I probably won't be able to accurately express. I have absolutely no problem with remembering those who fought in the World Wars, where the forces were conscripted. However, I am less supportive of service personnel who joined the Forces voluntarily as a career. I have a problem affording them the same level of respect etc. My problem essentially is that they made the choice to join the services and I'm not sure why I should pay for their retirement/medical treatment on top of any state pension for example, which is I believe what any money collected by the Poppy Appeal goes to. If there was a way to differentiate then I would. Maybe we can introduce a third coloured poppy? ?

Or just donate to a chosen charity and decline to purchase a poppy? There's a world of difference between not agreeing with or supporting something and creating a parody of it.