Do you wear a red poppy?

ONE, so you'd prefer me not to wear a poppy at all?

The RBL have no problem with them, they've been around 75 odd years, the originators of them were war widows who wanted to make a stand for peace, I don't know quite why they engender so much anger in you.

I tend to see the white poppy as an insult, put very simplistically "we don't think you should have been fighting so here's our white poppy as a protest about your nasty war". They seemed to be pretty common when I was at Uni but since I left there I've not really seen them.

Like LouM I live in Glasgow/west of Scotland where sadly sectarianism blights a lot of society and I've never ever heard of the poppy = protestant, no poppy = catholic. I think that's bloody ridiculous actually and would be pretty offended if someone thought they could gauge my religious persuasion from whether I decided to engage in the act of remembrance by wearing a poppy.

As for the OP - yes, generally I do for the reasons other poppy wearers have said on this thread and I would feel very self conscious in the run up to remembrance Sunday being out and about without one. I've not got mine yet this year largely cos they don't put blooming pins on them any more but stickers instead and the damn thing falls off and I lose it if I put it on too early so I'll get one probably when I'm out and about tomorrow.

other than what others have said about the poppy being more than just a charity pin, but a sign of rememberance, i think another reason is the poppy had been around for about 80 years or so? so the exemption for the poppy was made way before anyone would think there would be green nspcc buttons/ red aids awareness ribbons/pudsey bear pins etc

i don't think newsreadrers should wear charity pins because firstly, it's not really their business to promote a certain charity. they can do that in their own time if they wish to. plus they look a bit scruffy on a smart suit

as for police officers, well the rule is they don't wear other pins but loads do on their stabbies. and there is a police memorial one, the black and white ribbon. no flames on it though, sorry. but tbh i don't see why other than the police ribbon i should really need to know if they support breast cancer charities/nspcc or whatever either. they are supposed to be wearing a uniform after all

Anger? *ahem*

As I said, I've never actually seen one 'in the flesh' so it's not something I'm apt to get angry about.

And yes, I'd prefer you not to purchase and wear a token which seeks to subvert and existing charitable institution.

This thread reminds me - I need to buy a poppy.

I always try and get one, but don't tend to wear it apart from on Remembrance Sunday and Armistice Day themselves - mainly because I tend to lose them.

I've never seen a white poppy, although I was aware they existed.

Sooooo many people on this thread have told you why they don't like the white poppy, including myself. I'm not sure what else anyone can say.

Just because they've been around for 75 years and were started by war widows who wanted peace, doesn't make them sacred. I'll never like them, and once again - I believe they undermine the red poppy - which to me stands for rememberance and peace amoungst many other things.

I've just been reading about white poppies and it says it wants to decouple Armstice Day from it's military culture.

If ever there's a non-sequitur.....

so your "planned wars" comment referred solely to iraq i take it?

That's exactly what John Snow said when asked why he doesn't wear a poppy on air. https://www.channel4.com/?entry=why_i_don_t_wear

But not everyone in the World Wars were conscripted, there was a regular army in existence in 1918 and 1939. Do you have less respect for a WWII veteran who was in the regular army during those times?

The money from the Poppy Appeal doesn't go to pay the pension or medical treatment of ex-service people. The Goverment pay the pension, in the same way as they do for Police, Firefighters, civil servants etc. The RBL do a lot of work in helping people get the help they are entitled to through other agencies e.g. compensation claims, benefits. A huge percentage of the homeless in the UK are ex-service people, a lot have mental issues through PTSD. I do undertsand where you are coming from that they choose to do that job, but if they didn't then there would be conscription, assuming we would still need a defence as a nation if no one volunteered to do that job.

I said all wars in my lifetime. As far as I am aware that is Iraq and Afghanistan.

Saying that you don't like white poppies is different to saying that I have a blind spot about this issue, which is what Lou did.

I am happy for my political views to be challenged, disagreed with and ridiculed, it's one of the reasons Hitched is so great. I'm not so happy when that extends to personal comments about me (being stupid and ignorant was one earlier on this thread IIRC).

ETA: sorry the comment was "ill-informed, judgemental idiot".

well the poppy isn't just a symbol of charity, so i have to disagree with him there

i personally think he was making more of a statement by not wearing one, that his so-called objection to making one by wearing one tbh...(if that makes sense)

and then that was qualified with the "in my lifetime" comment later. the tradition of poppies for Nov 11th has been around for many years, and your comment about "planning the next one" seems to refer only to iraq/afghanistan.

i m now struggling to see your point RA. is it that you feel other dead should be remembered in a similar way, with similar ceremony? or something else?

Top of my head, since '82 Operational deployments ... Excluding Iraq/Afg. Apologies if I miss any

Northern Ireland

Bosnia Hertzigovina

Sierra Leone

Liberia

Kosovo

Plus varoius international deployments in support of the above.

LG: you make a very good point about mental health issues.

But as to the wider issue why should they get more support or special support compared to elderly ex-firefighters, police officers etc who may have been injured during service (or not). We should look after all our elderly, with access to information about benefits etc.

I think it was alison who was talking about her H's nan: obviously that's very sad, if they are talking about moving her to a different nursing home. But is it MORE sad than any other frail lady in her 90s who had happened to do a different job? I don't know the answers, I'm just thinking out loud!

I stand by it - that comment was about the nonsense you were spouting about care homes and compulsory donations to the royal british legion to keep ex military personnel in the homes.

I didn't say you were an idiot - I was suggesting that you read up about what you were stating as fact so that you didn't continue to come across as as an ill-informed, judgemental idiot.

And the fact that you think there have only been the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan during your lifetime (born mid-80s from what you've said?) does lend some weight to the idiot argument.

And that is where you continue to show a lack of knowledge about the work the british legion does. It doesn't just support the ex military personnel, it supports their dependents. My H's Dad is a Navy veteran and his nan has a place in the home because of him, not because she was in the military.

Yes I should have been clearer, I thought that using the word 'continue' would specify that I was discussing the current situation. Apologies.#

I don't think there should be two ceremonies, just a broadening of consciousness with regards to 'Rememberance' to remember those civilians who were killed, injured or bereaved due (directly or indirectly) to war, and continue to be on a daily basis all over the world.

And a proportion of the money going to support them wouldn't go amiss either.

How is supporting someone because of the job their spouse/kid/parents did any different to supporting them because of the job they did?

Should my Nan have less worth because she was married to a teacher and none of her kids went into the services?

All old people deserve good treatment, appropriate care and respect.

No I don't know the innermost accounts of the RBL, and I make no apologies for that.

from the poppy appeal website...

Nearly 10.5 million people are eligible for our help.

so i'm guessing they don't have the means to support everyone, unfortunately

Ahhhh.

but its a charity. why should its central theme be diluted by something else? charities exist to cover all kinds of areas, as you know. this is a specific one for servicemen and women, and their families. why should it be diluted? and why should they give money to other areas not connected? i m at a loss as to where youre coming from.

Thanks very much, ONE (not sarcasm, honest). I have heard of all of those and should have thought of them.

I wish they didn't stop at WW2 in history lessons at school. I've learned a decent amount since then but obviously not enough! It would have helped being a little bit older when most of them happened though.

Tangential: how do you feel about people who wear two poppies (red and white) - this is quite common amongst my friends.

Indeed, 1968 is the only year since 1945 a British service person has not been killed on active duty.

Just for the record..... On the financial front. A wee quote for you.

Any money raised over and above the cost of producing, publicising and distributing the white poppies goes to fund our education work"

Soooo.... Can I paraphrase?

"The money we recieve from selling white poppies will be used to further our agenda.

Not terribly altruistic is it?

I don't understand your first sentence.

No-one is saying what anyone's nan is worth or not - this discussion is about what the british legion does as a charitable organisation. And of course all old people deserve good treatment. There are many different charities that support many other sectors of the community.

In light of the point in bold, you've stated a lot of things as fact, based on what you think you know. It would transpire that you don't know much about the organisation you're denigrating on this thread.

As I said in my very first post, I totally respect your viewpoint about this, but the way you have gone about expressing yourself has been inflammatory, ignorant and just plain wrong.

i d think they were a bit dim, and would sneer at them.

?

I was born in 1982 and I know about all of those. You say schools should not stop at WW2 - I did GCSE History and learnt right up until 1990. a lot of the emphasis was on the cold war, and we did many topics about N.I and the falklands

I wear a poppy and go to a service of remembrance on the sunday and observe the 2 minutes silences for both then and Armistice day.

These debates are one of the reasons why I love Hitched. I really hope it broadens your opinion on the subject as to why the RBL do what they do R-A.

I'd think they were rather confused and a really silly.

I just don't get the bit where I'm denigrating the RBL?

And I'd be grateful for you to point out where you think I've been inflammatory. I'm afraid I don't see it.

This is clearly a sensitive area for you, and I'm sorry if you feel upset, but I don't think I've been offensive to anyone in what I've said. If I have, please point it out so I can rectify this for the future.